Treeless saddles - good or bad?

[arumanii]

My friend is raving about them atm as a demonstration went to her yard.

I cant really see how they help - am I missing something obvious?

What do u guys think? Good/bad/pointless?

[fleabitten]

whatever floats your boat. i havent tried them.

i think you can still have problems with fitting even though its supposed to mould to the back.

[fimacg]

not a fan but each to their own

[zara]

I've heard good and bad reports depending on which make you try. I tried AJ in Heather Moffett Phoenix a couple of years ago and although it was lovely it didn't suit him at all. Someone I know has just bought a Torsion and quite honestly it looks far too big for her arab and the mare just doesn't look happy in it.

A treeless needs just as much care with fitting as a treed saddle and I think that too many people think that you can just get one and stick it on!

With all things equine "one size doesn't fit all"! Zx

[racaille]

Well, I bought Paco a Barefoot and I must say it was really comfy for me and I felt he was free-er in his stride.

But I actively disliked the stirrup arrangement and I found the really high pommel and cantel annoying when you dismount and mount as often as I do when hacking. I also felt it looked too long for his short back, although I was assured that it was fine and I could see that there was no weight at the back of it.

I was really hoping to halt the gradual muscle wastage at the withers that he is getting (he is nearly a veteran). I am unable to lunge him as much as I used to atm.

But when I realised that my heart sank every time I heaved it on him and that I much preferred my wonderful Forestier, I decided to call it a day.

I think, if money were no object, I would investigate the more expensive 'traditional' looking treeless saddles. I have no problem with trying out new things and let's face it, treed saddles are based on really ancient technology.

[haffyfan]

I love my torsions and wouldn't swop them for anything! they are like armchairs and the high pommel and cantel have kept me in place many a time when otherwise Murph would have deposited me in a normal saddle!

My freeform (genuine one!) is another matter...it's as uncomfy as a treed despite them supposedly being the bee's knees...looks lovely but makes me saddle sore although ponies go well in it.

In general they are able to move more naturally as it doesn't sit immobially (sp) on their back as a treed would and frees up the back/shoulders, they also naturally sit you in a very good postion (well good ones do!)

Zara...I use childrens saddles as i agree the 16 inch upwards are massive (western sizing too!) unless you have a pretty big horse but the weight distribution is what is important and it covers a larger area with help of the pad than a normal saddle does.

I don't actually totally grasp the concept of some of the conventional ones that appear to have a gullet though???


Like anything one size does not always fit all and adjustments via shimming the pads can be needed to get a good fit. Also beware the hundreds of cheap badly made immatations now flooding the market...they often do not distribute the weight correctly for starters which is of course the most important aspect with them.....some (like bareback pads with stirrups) can create pressure points and do as much damage as a badly fitting treed saddle...always go for well reputated brands and not the cheap (and sometimes not so cheap) crap on ebay!

[brigadier]

I have ridden in the model Racaille has and I thought it very comfy, although it still didnt quite fit the fat cob I was riding at the time and we did have one lary incident when it slipped going down a steep bank. What does concern me though is that research done (in Holland I think) showed that horses were comfortable in them initially (more so than treed saddles) but after a prolonged period (couple of hours) the pressure points were far more than a treed saddle. Which is worrying considering the devotees of treeless tend towards the endurance brigade etc. I did think at one time that if I replaced my horses saddle I would go for a treeless but now I wouldnt touch one. Not quite sure why!!!!!

[dannyboy]

I have no experience of treeless saddles but I'd be open to anything that works for the individual horse.

[haffyfan]

Do you have a link to the research brig? I would be interested in reading it...the only research I have come across is always by master saddles and therefore, i should think, somewhat biased and never have they given details of the saddles/pads etc used .

Of course there is plently of research (equally biased) done by treeless devotees too lol thsi of course does name brands!

[gingernut]

I was discussing with a equine physio and she said that she wouldn't use one due to the pressure points that it creates where the stirrup leathers pull down on the saddle. I know what I am trying to say, hopefully it makes sense?

[haffyfan]

perfect sense as some like the bareback pads just have stirrups bars just attached to a thin strip going over saddle...better models have them atatched to a large piece that goes the full length and distributes the pressure

[spotti]

I agree that treeless saddles need as much care and fitting as any tree'd saddle and that you can't just buy one willy nilly and expect it to be ok (as we foun out the hard way - grr!). Also treeless saddles need special pads to help lift the saddle off the spine.

Personally I would never chose to go back to a treed saddle asI find them uncomfy and all the ones I've ridden in put me in the wrong position and make me tip forwards, hurting my back immensely. However, if I had a horse who didn't suit treeless then I'd go back to a treed saddle if it was for the good of my horse. But given the choice, I'd stick with my comfy freeform

I sat on a Torsion once and was seriously disappointed by how uncomfy it was. I was told they were the armchair of all saddles, but I found it hard, lumpy and the pommel got in the way of everything!

But my general opinion is each to his own. Whatever works for you and your horse is what you should do/use.

My freeform is the only saddle out of our 4/5 so far that has allowed me to ride Faith for more than about a week without having a few days off with back ache. It is also the only saddle that has encouraged muscle bulk behind her withers and along her back. And that is good enough for me The fact that it gets comfier for me and for her the longer we ride in it, and the fact that its lighter and easier to lift up onto her back is just a bonus!!!!

I also love my caged endurance stirrups...probably can't do much dressage-type stuff in them very easily, but for hacking out they are the bees knees

[brigadier]

Haffy- I think it was in the Horse Health magazine quite some time ago (at least 18 months) but I cant be sure as I read anything and everything. I seem to remember Maxie may have read the same research??

[duckles]

I have been riding in a treeless saddle for about 18months now. It is a Solution saddle and I find it great. Although I was interested in the treeless concept, I could see anything wrong with the treed concept either and I have read studies where experts found no benefit to the horse in riding in treeless (or detriment either).
My horse JB had a lot of problems over the years, back problems and lameness. In one year the physio was out about 14 times and at one stage suggested I get a new saddle. I went to the master saddler she recommended and paid a lot of money for a new saddle and it made absolutely no difference to his problems (and I found it pretty uncomfortable). I moved on to chiros then and JB had about 12 sessions during the following year (which did help) but he continued to have difficulties. In the middle of this, I tried a treeless saddle - pretty much in desperation.

Although there was no 'magic' moment, he did seem freer in his shoulder pretty much immediately. I loved it from the start and felt much more effective and balanced so over the months, his way of going did improve a bit. Then he got a lot worse and was diagnosed with advanced arthritis in his stifles, arthritis in his hock and back and kissing spines. The vet thought that the back problems was caused or made worse by the stifle problems and advised riding a lot and correctly so as to improve his 'posture' and ease his back. (He also needs twice yearly mesotherapy and joint injections).

It was only in April of this year that I was able to ride JB on a regular basis (partly due to his health, partly the weather ) and until last week, he was sound, going great and happy in his work. I don't know how much his saddle helped but it certainly didn't hinder in any way. Although I was told it would never happen, he has gained muscle where it had wasted near his withers.

While I think the injections are what has made the difference, I do think the saddle has done its part. One day I rode Cori in my treeless. NOw, Cori has a good stong back and a lovely saddle and I only rode him in the treeless because I was being lazy, I certainly didn't expect a difference in him but there was one. He was more forward in all paces and seemed less 'tight' - its hard to express.

I don't think there is anything necessarily superior in treeless over treed - a lot will depend on the saddle itself. With a horse who had confirmation differences like high withers or big shoulders or whatever, I do believe there is a better chance getting a good fit with a treeless rather than a treed - as the rigid nature of the tree can be merciless if not a correct fit and after my experiences - I have less confidence in saddlers than I should have.

I am not really suprised by the survey that said that the treeless could be hard on a horse than a treed after 3/4 hours. I think because of their nature, a WELL FITTING treed saddle would be easier on a horse on a long journey especially if the rider was any way unbalanced or rode heavily. On the other hand, I believe a treeless (especially if the rider was balanced and rode well) would be easier on the horse than a BADLY FITTING treed on a long journey.
As I don't suppose I will be lucky enough to have many long rides in the near future, I can put off this problem for the moment, but it is something I will have to look into.

I know this has been long but I love my saddle and feel it has improved my riding and that my horse does feel comfortable in it, so I do want to share my positive experiences. At the same time, I really can't criticise treed saddles but I do think that some horses can be hard to fit.

[arumanii]

thanks guys! May have to look into it when (if) I have some spare cash lying about!

[joandlad]

I backed Murph in a cheap and cheerful Wintec as I knew he was going to change shape substantially after backing. I wanted to buy him a good saddle that would, hopefully, fit him as he grew. Treeless seemed a good idea but I wanted one that looked like a conventional saddle so I tried out an Enlightened Equitation Phoenix. To be perfectly honest I hated it at first as the stirrup bars are set further back so you feel like you are tipping forwards. But Murph loved it right from the start. His choppy stride lengthened and his shoulders moved like never before. So we stuck it out and after a while I got used to it. Absolutely no way I would ever go back to a treed saddle now. I can feel his back movement and he can feel my seat. I've recently upgraded to a Vogue GPT as we're starting to jump a bit now. They do need to be fitted but usually fit most horses with a bit of adjustment as long as they've got no atrophy. You can trial EE saddles. I'd definitely recommend trying one and seeing what you think.

[jane]

I didn't find the treeless I tried any more comfortable than my traditional treed, but I was disappointed that they don't encourage you to mount from the ground in treeless saddles as they can slip and this did happen on the horse I rode in the treeless.

I ride for long distances and have to get off to open gates and so need to mount from the ground. I am currently on the look out for a new saddle but wouldn't choose treeless. I have also read about the pressure differences after prolonged periods of riding ans as my average ride is at least 3 hours (usually 4 - 5) then I would be wary of this.

Really it depends on what you want to do with your riding.

[racaille]

Jane, me too, but I can always find a rock or a small bank or verge to mount from. What struck me is that if a treeless saddle slips when we mount from the ground, how much pressure must be put on the withers when we do so in a treed saddle.

I'm a bit of a laughing stock for always mounting from an 'advantage'. I couldn't care less.

[duckles]

Just on the not mounting from the ground thing - (and i think Im with Racaille here) its really nothing to worry about - there is always something, a stone, a log, a kerb, an incline, a fence a gate etc etc. It has never ever being a bother. Also I can recall being told many a time (when I rode with a treed saddle) that it is really bad to swing yourself up from the ground. I have to say I used to do it but I don't think it is recommended for many reasons. So what ever the reasons that you go or don't go for treeless, I don't think that should be one.

[haffyfan]

I would agree with above comments but you can mount off ground if need be.

I too use anything handy to climb on and mine are pretty obliging about being leapt onto off fences/gates etc as I think it's far better this way for them but I can mount off ground unaided if need be. With Harry admittedly it's more likely to be sucessful if you've already been on top, squashed everything down and done the girth up I admit. I find the girths very hard to do up off the ground compared to a non treed as everything squishes down more, so to speak, once your on board.