Flash bands - what are your views?

[bonnyben]

In my lesson last week S and I were working (as we always do ) on Ben's outline and softness. Those of you who have been kind enough to look at our dressage vids and offer advice will know that Ben going round and soft is a rarity, MY fault not his.

Anyway towards the end of my 45 mins S asked me if I ever use a flash? No says I cos he doesn't need it. S then said he thought it would help as he is crossing his jaw. So a flash was hurriedly found and attached and immediately and I mean instantly Ben went much better, soft and light in my hands, his back came up nicely and he was forward and round. There was much comment and glee about it and I was thrilled thinking "that's it sussed..." ;D

But no, I have ridden him twice in the school since with nothing like the same degree of success.

I am riding him as forward from my leg as I can, doing plenty of transitions and circles, changes of rein etc.....just in case you ask!!!

Do any of you have advice on the use of them please and experience of flashes being the magic wand...

I have used them before with other horses but I can't honestly say they seemed to make a vast difference. But with Ben it really did for that wee while.

[fimacg]

I don't tend to use them, but more because I have never needed to than anything else.

I know others are of the opinion that a drop is better than a flash, but I think it depends on the actual problem

[brigadier]

I really hate them BB, they are so fashionable and I dont understand the appeal. When used as they are designed to be they put pressure on a main nerve in the horses face. Continued use, especially if tight can cause this nerve to become numb and the skin to form callouses and dead tissue. (Have a look at the Micklem Multi bridle website for the science part ) It could be that he was backing off from the pressure, thus giving you a false outline, however once he realised that it dindnt help he reverted to the norm.

A drop is better, but the crossing jaw thing is resistance and stress, so somewhere you are pulling and not giving quick enough- my horse does it after a ride, he will pull the reins forward and cross his jaw, as though to say gerrof! So I hold on and the jaw crosses!

Its better IMO to let the horse work past the 'thing' that makes him cross his jaw, really concentrate on how you give and ask for the outline, as opposed to using a quick fix with an item of tack, even if you dont succeed quickly with him (it will click at some point) you will be a better rider for it.

[zara]

Completely agree with Brig - I hate flashes and think they should be condemned to the same bin as draw reins; nothing more than a fashion accessory most of the time Zx

[bonnyben]

Right thank you, consigned to the bin it is then!!! Interesting really because as I said, I did say to S "he doesn't need it" and I haven't used one for ages, ( never needed it with Ronan either) it was actually all stiff, green and had a beard when it was brought from my tack box.

It was done up very loosely but the noseband was tightened so that the flash didn't pull it down - or so S said.

So brig, I wonder what I am doing wrong? I am not a good rider but I am sensitive - I always warm him up properly and don't "demand" anything as far as I am aware. Pulling? If by that you mean taking a contact then yes I am doing that but you seem to be saying I am not giving quickly enough, as in releasing the rein when he complies? But if he isn't "giving" what do I do?

I don't have much "feelage" - this is probably the problem.....

Thanks guys, as always I appreciate your advice and input.

[fleabitten]

perhaps you are riding different from what you do in a lesson? maybe you do bad habits without noticing even though you feel like you are really trying?

im of the same opinion as fi but then i dont have any experience with this noseband, good or bad as never needed one.

perhaps a flash was used because it was able to be attached onto his noseband instantly without having to take the bridle off and put another one on to see if that would help the problem - a different noseband.

[brigadier]

The first lesson the horse must learn is to soften the jaw and yield to your contact. Do this at halt.
Take your hands wide and low so that you apply constant pressure to the bars of his mouth, be firm and unrelenting about this (but not pulling backwards) as soon as he drops his nose you must very quickly give him a feather light contact and good boy, if he has only dropped it a bit ask for a bit more until you are happy where his head is, ie arched neck, nose on vertical. hold him there by a light contact only putting pressure on when he raises his nose. Reward.

Practice this until you are happy you can react quick enough to the drop of the nose. then try it whilst walking but only for a short walk, as he will find it difficult if he hasnt walked in an outline for a while. Again practice.
Then try at trot, it will be harder but by now he will understand what you want, take the hands wide and low and put pressure on the bars until he drops (even a touch) and reward with good boy, tickle on neck with inside hand and a light but constant contact.
Once he gives and softens the jaw you can work on outline, pushing him up to your hand which can shorten his outline or lengthen it as he is obedient to your hand.

BB I must have ridden a hundred horses and not one has not been obedient to this training. \some take longer depending what has gone on before. I remember one ex showjumper, very talented but with an upside down neck and a mouth of iron who took at least two hours to yield, the horse simply couldnt do it easily but it did in the end.
Ive also taught this to lots of riders, all get it eventually, some quicker than others, its the speed of recognising when the horse gives with the jaw, the rein goes soft, and you must reward with a soft rein but hold the position youve achieved. You will get it I promise you, Solomon is having a similar time of it at the moment, check her posts!!!

[racaille]

Me too (having a difficult time). P will do it quite quickly when asked but finds it hard to hold - mostly I think because I don't react fast enough or I give too much. But as Brig says, trot is much easier. I've been working on this for almost a year now (we are slow learners, P and me) and while he can be good in the arena, it is hard out hacking as he likes to have a good look around. I know he should be concentrating on me and what I am asking him to do, but again as Brig says, all the bad habits of the past have to be unlearned too.

But from the bit I've seen of the lovely Ben I think you might see faster results than us! He looks supple and a quick learner.

[bonnyben]

Thank you brig and Rac, you are both very encouraging.

Ben is ok at canter - probably because it is his favourite pace and the one he is always keenest to do!!! He takes a nice shape.

And yes you are right Rac, Ben is a quick learner and very keen to try to please.

Well Sunday is nearly here Rac, good luck - have bags of fun...