Correct foot position in stirrups

[haffyfan]

Okay so can anyone explain it further than putting the ball of the foot in the stirrup please? Starting with what is the ball of the foot as not sure's it's what I think it is?

I was reading one of rac's post in which she said about only riding with her toes in the stirrups, well thats what I do too really.

I have flex rides with cages but my foot (well toes) never goes over the tread, whereas I have noticed Oh (thought it was just him) but also J who rides harry and works part time at a stables, doing her stages and has 2/3 lessons a week also has her foot what I would class as 'well home' in the stirrup with their toes almost touching the cages.

I thought the ball was the meaty bit before the toes and in normal stirrups I guess this would be in contact and the toes just over but as mine are chunkier on the base my toes don't don't go over the edge.

Not sure how clear these are and not very flattering to say the least but a pic of Murph and I with flex rides (bought some symmetry straps and they are brilliant and helping stop my lower leg creep too far back!) and an old pic of a recently backed Murph with standard irons.



So who is correct/why?
Cheers

[fleabitten]

I dunno, I ride with my feet the same as yours. I couldnt ride properly if they were any further 'home'.

[solomon]

I put my foot half way in and still lose my stirrups!

[scattymare]

The 'ball' is as you say the fleshy bit between the arch of the foot and your toes. At the end of the day though so long as it's comfortable, I wouldn't have thought it matters a great deal.

[fleabitten]

I agree with scatty.

[maximum]

I would always ride with the widest part of my foot in the stirrup.

I find it the most comfortable way and also it allows me to have flexibility through my knee and ankle joint without too much 'heel down' which can affect the tightnessin the calf and thigh muscle and prevent the joints being soft and flexible.I also find if I only have my toes in then my lower leg is less stable- but thats probably due more to the fact iots what i am used to- with just the toe I struggle to keep the stirrup leather perpindicular to the ground.

[haffyfan]

ooh get you Maxi with your big words!

So are you saying their is maybe no right/wrong way then maxie?

Wonder if it's why my legs try to creep back...trouble is trying to put more foot through feels really wrong (have just tried it this evening out hacking and had to revert back by top of lane). Also my lower legs don't seem to creep back on Harry only with Murph....?

[duckles]

I think if you stand on your feet and experiment with different pressure points ie toes, under toes, middle, sole, heel etc, you will see that it alters how you stand and in particular your pelvis??? (maybe this is only me??) So I am thinking that maybe the position of the foot actually may come from the pelvic position - does that make sense- well it does in my own mind but I don't seem to be expressing it well. So, the foot should fall naturally in a certain way and if positioned otherwise, it could cause (or mean) stress somewhere else?
But I suppose if foot only resting lightly, it may not matter so much

[maximum]

I is well edukated you know haffy and I noes lots of big words!

supercalifragilisticexpallidocious!

If you think that your hip and heel should be in a straight line its quite hard to do that with the toe in the stirrup (sitting on back of couch on dressage saddle trying this out!)

If I put just my toe in i feel the alignement of shoulder hip heel gets put out and in my case its tipping me forward onto my fork more than I want to be but again its not what am i used to - also the couch wont walk round the house so its hard to judge just sitting here.

I think from looking at pics part of the 'leg too far back' may be due to the fairly short stirrups you have- i want to grab your upper thigh,pull it away from the horse and put it back lower and with your seat having your pelvis tipped up more - the trying out hacking is hard because as we all know if you sit in way long enough anything else feels strange.

[abi]

i agree with maxi's widest part of foot in stirrup - thats what i've been taught. maybe try experimenting where you put your feet? i was told to put feet much further forward on a XC lesson once, and it was surprisingly more comfy after a while!

[racaille]

Toe-only is what we are taught here.



and one of the teenager is the same

[brigadier]

Different schools of equitation have different views on this- so in some the toe is crucial- others the instep (though this is rather old fashioned now) and in others the ball.

Ive tried the toe position and it causes strain on the ankle and encourages the rider to be out of line with the hip joint and stiff through the knee. Ive also noticed that this holds true when teaching.

The ball of the foot is IMO the best method. The theory being that it allows the rider to keep the foot in balance with the body- both horizontally and vertically, this then allows the full flexibility of the joints in absorbing the different movements. However if a rider when dismounted has sticky out toes then this will affect how they position their foot, likewise if they are pigeon toed.

Jockeys now adopt a very tippy toe position and some jumpers adopt an equally tippy toe position.

The ultimate ideal position for you comes from doooing this exercise.

Sit without stirrups, stretching the leg out, up and down several times to relax the hip and knee- then let it hang there like a wet dish rag. Without moving anypart of your leg exept the ankle and foot- flex so that the ball or your preferrred part of foot is able to find the stirrup. If you have to draw up your leg or move your calf then you need to adjust your stirrups so that you dont! This will give you the correct length for the balance of your body and will allow you to discover when moving if you draw up your leg etd (as you will lose your stirrups) If this happens then ride without stirrups regularly but try and maintain the legth and the position your foot finds the stirrup as this is the one natural for you.

Then once you have done this make sure that there is equal weight across the foot in the stirrup (this is where the toe in method is a disadvantage) This is so your ankle has no strain down any particular side and it can move as a hinge joint correctly.

PS Agree with Maxi re your postion Haffy.

[racaille]

Interesting.

The teenager and I were discussing this out hacking this am and tried the ball-of-foot method but both agreed it felt very strange - but as you say, new things always do. I've never had any discomfort with the toe-only approach (to be exact it isn't just the toes in, it does necessarily have to include a bit of the ball of your foot) but then we are encouraged not to push down into the stirrup to achieve the heel down look, but to rest the foot lightly in the stirrup with feet more level than heel down.

Long riders here are switching more and more to the Kvall stirrup which does away with this altogether. The whole foot is rested, flat, on a foot-size plate. It looks odd to begin with but is apparently fabulously comfortable.

[brigadier]

I think you have to go with what is comfortable and works. Pushing the heel down is wrong, but it should be able to sink with movement(like a pulsing action) so that it absorbs it- if it is forced down it cannot do this. I think this is one of the dangers with toe only position. when I have ridden with rando type stirups I find they make me have toe only in so it may be different stirrups that affect postion also. Id be interested to try the Kvall ones!

[maximum]

had to google kvall as unknown to me

www.kvall.fr/index.php?lang=en&menuclick=390

weird looking things!!

[haffyfan]

Me too.

Thanks Brig (and maxi) tried your length exercise tonight Brig and had to let them down a hole...must say though rising trot felt like a sack of spuds and I was all over...didn't loose them but felt too long and insecure. I was also experimenting with position of foot and had it more on ball of foot than usual (J noticed and commented!) so it could ahve been a mixture of both as this felt very weird and I had to concentrate hard not to revert back. I also tried very hard with Maxi's comments reagrding position esp the pelvis thing, J says I wasn't but felt as though I was leaning back a little (Guess this confirms I tilt forwrds normally) but it did feel as though this change in position pushed my lower leg forwards into a better position? Now is when you tell me I got all the above advice around my neck no doubt isn't it!

Will keep at it (if i am correct) and hopefully it should get easier - twas a rather eventful ride anyhow...

[brigadier]

Do keep trying Haffy- in truth that is the ideal but how many of us actually achieve it?? I have allowed my leg to shorten and it takes a long time to develop the elasticity of muscle again- Im not there yet!!!! But my line of thought is we should always try to achieve the ideal.

[scattymare]

I tried yesterday riding on different parts of my foot. Very strage indeed. If I used only my toes I felt like i was suddnly really tipping forward and couldn't find my balance at all. When using the arch it just felt downright wierd and I felt I had no control over my legs at all.
Funny isn't it how the smallest thing can affect your whole balance.

[fleabitten]

I find that doing that length exercise that your stirrups are just too long then and you keep loosing them or wobbling about.

I had my stirrups at hole 10 when I got Kieran for jumping and 9 for flatwork and then 8 for a plod round the roads. But now its 9 for hacking and 10 for flatwork. I actually had to put them up to 11 for trotting on Saturday.

I seem to have let him get into a shuffly slow trot and I have been practicing getting him motoring on round the arena and its very hard work!! He is responsding well with his transitions but im finding i have to keep pushing on all the time and therefore my legs are waving about. I so tried keeping them still but then he slowed down. Another problem is with the reins. I have them really quite loose because the slightest pull makes him slow down or walk - this means I cant take a firm hold on them because then he wouldnt go anywhere!

Perhaps hes just bored schooling. Any ideas?

[maximum]

flea he could just be idle!!

He does need to take the contact - loose reins wont help.

with a lazy horse you musnt keep on at him - the leg will becoe so annoying he just ignores it. with a slow horse you need to keep the leg off and only use it when you really need to.

leg on in a firm manner backed up by stick if required then leg off - when you do put leg on use a kiss noise so he gets the idea and eventually the kiss noise will siffice - there is a thread somewhere about slow/lazy horses.

[fleabitten]

Thanks maxie. I think he is just idle, i agree! I was able to take a firm contact today when he was more alert and he was moving on but after a few mins it was back to nagging! For instance, if hes interested in what we are doing or just after doing something interesting then hes much more co operative!

Will give this a go next time

[maximum]

thepaddocks.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=ridingfaqs&action=display&thread=5322

[maximum]

thepaddocks.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=schooling&action=display&thread=1701

THIS IS THE ONE I WAS THINKING OF

[spotti]

Haffy - I ride with just my toe in the stirrup (I have the same stirrups as you me thinks - comfy aren't they?!), but I only started recently...I used to ride as I was told with the ball of my foot in the stirrup and I had no balance what-so-ever no matter how hard I tried, yet now I'm on my own horsey and just enjoying our wanderings, I'm much more chilled out and ride how I feel comfortable (I'd be slated by RIs if I had a lesson I ride that relaxed), but Faith goes much more happily and moves more freely and I'm in better balance with her with just my toes in the stirrups (as you'll see if you read my post on Ceej's "natural carriage" thread where we went galloping and jumping for our first time EVER and she was brilliant) so I think it really does depend on what you're doing, why you're doing it, how your pelvis is aligned and basically how you feel comfortable. Riding is supposed to be fun so just do what feels best

Oh, and maybe your legs only creep back on Murphy but not on Harry because your expecting him to stop and/or play up, whereas you know Harry just plods on regardless...