Independent seat

[racaille]

Thought we could do with a thread explaining and with how-to advice ..... over to you, experts .......

[dannyboy]

Oh yes please mods

[fimacg]

bareback riding and lunge lessons...

[maximum]

An independant seat simply means that you are staying on the horse by balance alone using a relaxed muscle tension to influence the way the horse moves without any stiffness or requirement for the stirrups or reins as a crutch.

It will aid the way you communicate with your horse and by always being in balance and over the horses center of gravity you will allow the horse to use itself to its maximum potential.

It will also allow you to influence the horses way of going and help it to balance- so for example the only time the horse should feel pressure on the bit is when you ask it to come soft and round but if you dont have balance then when you lose the balance you put pressure on the bit and confuse the communication link between you and the horse.

To obtain a truly independent seat you need to first of all relax- both through your body and in your mind, you then need to be balanced and able to feel the movement of the horse beneath you and able to identify what is moving where( so for example knowning if you are on the correct diagonal by feel rather than look- likewise correct canter lead) once that is established you can begin to influence the horses way of going.

The way of going here is HARMONY!

so how to develop this?

First of all try some dismounted exercises to help work the core muscles- got a wii fit? become a yoga demon!

or try this exercise from pilates

Stand with your toes facing forwards and feet hip-width apart. Breathe in, and as you breathe out again contract upwards the internal muscles of your abdomen and pelvic floor and hold the muscle contraction while continuing to breathe. Now feel your feet firmly on the ground and lift one leg behind you a little way off the floor, keeping your thigh as vertical as possible. Imagine a long pole running vertically from the foot on the floor to the top of your head. Hold for 30 seconds, if you can, supporting yourself on a chair if you wobble Repeat with the other leg.

for mounted nothing will improve as well or as fast as lunging.- the more you can be lunged on different horses the better you will become.

Try this exercise either being lunged or being led

tie a knot on your reins and leave them on the horses neck.

Remove your stirrups- either totally or cross in front of the saddle( remember to pull the buckle down before crossing so they dont dig in and right then left so if you get off its only one stirrup needs taken back down)

now stick your legs out to the side - imagine that your legs have been cut off at the mid thigh so only your upper thigh and seat are holding you on! work on relaxing and feeling the movement of the horse beneath you- I find closing my eyes helps to start with. you start by holding on but work towards arms out the side and trotting and cantering in this position.

Also try when riding normally standing in your stirrups- just stand up and if you fallback DONT use the hands to save yourself- lower gently and then stand up again. As you get better at this shorten the stirrup length!

Also a wee bareback ride helps a lot but beware- some horses are more comfortable than others! some will bring a tear to a glass eye!

[brigadier]

I cant do any better than Maxi at describing and achieving an independent seat! Awesome as always Maxi.

When I was riding 'at my peak' which has to be said was several years ago I was able, on the lunge and free in the school to raise the entire length of my leg up/off and away from the saddle/horse and trot and canter around- so staying on was totally down to the balance and posture of my upper body and my seat bones. This was through all the paces and transitions. Now I have to say that I would have a real job just lifting my leg!!!
But its that feeling you need to achieve- your legs are like wet dish rags just there on the saddle- no tension, no grip. and your hands just hold the weight of your rein, like you have a baby bird in your palm and you are wanting to feel its heartbeat. Your elbows are crucial as they must be bent and soft. Now that is the ideal- im not saying that any of us will ever achieve it- but surely that is the point- that we constantly strive to.

And for horses that are 'spoilt' after years/months of being ridden otherwise, we may have to have a little pull and a little kick now and again- to say whoa or go! But we immediately immediately immediately offer the ideal so that we show them how it can be and how we would like them to be, And even the most spoilt horses (and believe me Ive ridden some) will say thank you!

Great idea for a thread Rac!

[solomon]

Very relevant to me today, during my lesson, really concentrating on making Peter's shoulders turn, rather than 'steering' with the reins. Also using a 'code' with him in preparation for upward ransitions so he is ready as soon as the leg aid is applied, he tried his little heart out as always. Bless him.

[brigadier]

Solomon, when you say 'code' do you mean a half halt?
I know what you mean by giving them an indication that something is about to happen as I like to give Basil a little 'kiss' prior to upwards transitions but I find using a half halt just prior to anything new just preps them and gets them to brings their hocks underneath.

[duckles]

Great thread and great tips.
But of course I have to have questions!
Ok, I agree lunging must be great but some of us have zero chance of ever getting one so what would would you suggest instead? Working without stirrups or bareback? And if so, is it ok to skip trotting for a bit and just to walk or canter? And if without stirrups (or bareback) any tips for sitting better? ie touching toes or anything like that?
I did read a dressage guy saying that you will never be any good at sitting trot unless you do loads and loads of without stirrup work. Is this true? I find some horses a lot easier to sit to than others and I do worry about without stirrup work hurting the horse's back. Is this a possiblity?

Sorrry about all the questions.

[brigadier]

Well ...............Im not sure that bareback riding is all that beneficial for an independent seat. Overall I think it helps to have the education of riding bareback but..........to do so you have to switch your centre of balance back and sit further back on the seat bones, whereas for dressage the posture is more upright and the legs carried in line with the body not in front.
I think if you cant lunge then its about being very concious in all your work that you sit centrally with your legs well underneath you- your tummy pushing forward to your hands and the elbows soft and feeling for the mouth (not your hands) when you sit practice the alternate feel for the bump in the trot which makes your bum relax and keep your chest lifted and open with your shoulders back, practice lots of turns and feel how the turns affect your posture- do you need to hang on a bit with the rein or do your simply follow the movment with your shoulder matching the horse. In canter try lifting your legs off the saddle- does the horse break down into trot- if so work at him keeping his rhythm without the constant pressure of your leg on his side. If you can get someone to film you- do your hands rise at trot in time with your rise or do they appear carried but still? The latter indicates independent hands, and if the horse trips do your lurch forward and pull on the mouth at the same time or do you simply follow the trip and recover quickly? horses with extravagant trots or long backs are hard to sit to- but invest ina balance strap if one of yours does this to help you feel how to sit but not rest on the mouth to do so. Build your horse up to sitting trot, dont do too much too soon

[brigadier]

sorry small boy helping!

[ptarmigan1]

Great thread, this may help me loads!

[solomon]

The code is really about preparation before the transition, Peter is heavily reliant on his forehand so it's about sitting back almost and waiting for him to use his hind quarters. I sometimes have to wait it out but then the quality of transition is so much better than hurrying him.

[maximum]

your boy will be an expert by his 6th birthday brig!!

Duckles- a neck strap round the neck will be a help and if walk and canter are what work to start with then yes go for it- its better than nothing!

Brig will be like me and was raised on bareback riding and games with no stirrups etc. i shudder at what we did when I was a kid! we never led a pony anywhere- always jumped on bareback and we had a big long lane up to the yard and we used to gallop up doing all sorts of stuff- no saddles. facing backwards, really short stirrups jockey style etc but it really taught us balance!

The use of the stomach muscles cannot be over emphasised- on monday after my judging nothing hurt despite riding all those different horses after a few months off - nothing except my stomach muscles!! so am trying to be aware of sitting correctly and proper posture at all times so my stomach muscles are in use.

[brigadier]

Jul 15, 2009 21:10:10 GMT maximum said:

your boy will be an expert by his 6th birthday brig!!

Im gutted Maxi- he is just not interested. He likes the polo mints when we visit Basil together and thats about it!

[duckles]

thanks guys, I'm looking forward to trying out some of these things if I manage to get riding this evening.
Years ago I was on a fun ride with about 16 people from our club. It was winter and the plan was to go galloping through fields, jump ditches and end up on a cross country course. I was the most inexperienced there and I was riding a TB mare who had been kept in for a week because she had a mild injury. I was a bit apprehensive that she was going to be very fresh. When we arrived, one guy opened the gate to a field, mounted and headed off galloping. All the other horses followed highly excited. I was at the back of the group and my poor mare couldn't bare to have so many horses in front of her so she gave a massive buck and set off at high speed. I was thrown forward and landed sitting on her neck- at a gallop and even handicapped by this, she was overtaking the others. AS I felt myself sliding down her neck, I was imagining sliding down and thereby overbalancing her and then her tumbling on top of me. It was not a nice moment. I couldn't slow her, I can remember shouting to the rider in front of me to stop but either he didn't hear me or couldn't. I can remember the faces of those I was overtaking as they looked at me aghast. In the end I did the only thing I could think of, I inched back and jumped backwards over the pommel on to the saddle. This is actually hard to do at full gallop. But it gave me the most wonderful seat I have even had. Whatever muscles I used resulted in me being able to sit beautifully. I didn't even mind going at full gallop without stirrups - it felt the most comfortable and secure thing in the world! And it was a full gallop as the horse, with me off her neck, overtook everyone else. Sadly, the good effects on my seat didn't last long and I never really wanted to try it again!!

[maximum]

Thats a bit of an extreme measure duckles and one I may not pass on to the pony club kids LOL!

[dannyboy]

Think I might pass on this for a few months staying on is my priority atm

[fimacg]

DB - you don't have to try it the way Duckles suggests, good exercises to get you started are riding with reins in one hand and one arm by your side, or circle it, or touch your nose, anthing so you are not balancing on the rein, then swap arms. just do it in walk to start with, until you are comfortable then go up to trot etc.

sanding in you stirrups in walk is bloomin' hard especially when not balancing on the rein.

Also if you are not comfortable taking your stirrups away entirely you can play about with different lengths, even riding jockey style length as this will help improve you seat and take your legs away from the horse without the total loss of security.