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Post by dannyboy on Aug 3, 2008 12:45:02 GMT
Just been looking a Spoti's thread and I was just wondering if anyone could explain exactly what napping is? Where / when / why does it happen & how can you manage it? It may be that I have just never came across it yet, or is it just a horse being stubborn?
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haffyfan
Administrator 
is pressing random buttons...sorry guys
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Post by haffyfan on Aug 3, 2008 13:06:10 GMT
Basically it discribes when a horse refuses to move forwards/go somewhere when asked.
Some don't like leaving the field when their friends are still out/some won't leave the security of the yard etc etc.
Managing it is trying to find the root of the problem and dealing with that...often it is just a confidence/seperation anxiety thing. Depending on how it is/has been treated in the past some horses are made worse...for eg I knew someone who's horse wouldn't leave the yard. So what did she do...whack it, get someone to chase it with whips etc...you can imagine the scenario I'm sure. What she failed to raelise was as the horse got worse and worse that she was now causing the problem as the poor thing was terrified and whatever the initial problem was he now associated leaving the yard with a beating so no way was he going to go anywhere near the point of the beatings. Some people just are not fit to own horses!
I actually do think some are stubborn...my Murph sometimes naps? Or does he? basically he randomly goes on strike and refuses to move in any direction (including turning for home??). It is never leaving the yard and so far never in the same place twice and not every time he goes out.
Personally i think he needs a pyscologist as he is a little 'special' shall we say.
Can horse be autistic?
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Post by fleabitten on Aug 3, 2008 13:08:39 GMT
It is when a horse refuses to listen to your aids - say if you were in the arena and the horse kept trying to go out the gate or kept stopping at the gate then that would be napping. Or if you were on a hack and the horse refused to move or tried to turn for home. Its not the same as if you asked for canter and you didnt get canter that would be because you didnt ask right and the horse is confused or it is too unbalanced and running along so it cant canter, this is usually if the horse hasnt been schooled properly.
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Post by florence on Aug 3, 2008 23:09:16 GMT
Mine used to nap at the manege gate dreadfully. I thought I would spend my whole life working on it! We finally got there in the end, though. It just takes them so long to realise they're not going to get away with it. I think they keep at it to try and wear you down first. It's not a good situation to be in at a show, either, if you have to come away from the group to do your bit before the judge and your horse naps badly, you're not gonna get placed!
Haffy, I know someone whose horse goes on strike like yours. She literally becomes immoveable. I'm sorry to say she hasn't found a solution.
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haffyfan
Administrator
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Post by haffyfan on Aug 4, 2008 6:53:53 GMT
Haffy, I know someone whose horse goes on strike like yours. She literally becomes immoveable. I'm sorry to say she hasn't found a solution. Florence you've made my day ;D So glad mines not the only one with 'pyschological issues'. I have taken to riding with his *whispers incase Brig is listening* parelli halter on under his bridle (which looks a bit odd/takes some arranging as I use a hackamore) but when he did it on Sat I found him much easier to 'tow' this way. Then yesterday the little Toad was as good as good can be!!  |
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Post by florence on Aug 4, 2008 20:34:03 GMT
I reckon that's a good idea. My friend is really fed up with all the "advice" she gets. She's tried it all. Her horse doesn't even care if the others out with them go off and leave them! She never knows when she's going to do it so daren't go out on the roads with her! It'll be interesting to see if you do get him out of it.
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Post by brigadier on Aug 4, 2008 20:39:06 GMT
Haffy, I know someone whose horse goes on strike like yours. She literally becomes immoveable. I'm sorry to say she hasn't found a solution. Florence you've made my day ;D So glad mines not the only one with 'pyschological issues'. I have taken to riding with his *whispers incase Brig is listening* parelli halter on under his bridle (which looks a bit odd/takes some arranging as I use a hackamore) but when he did it on Sat I found him much easier to 'tow' this way. Then yesterday the little Toad was as good as good can be!! Aaaargh- where's the chip fat............! |
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Post by florence on Aug 4, 2008 20:55:50 GMT
Oh no........Brig heard us!
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Post by Jen on Aug 7, 2008 15:52:21 GMT
why chip fat??
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Post by spotti on Aug 7, 2008 18:29:11 GMT
I dunno!
And napping - atleast when Faith does it - is stopping and refusing to go forwards. Strangely she turns right no problems but downright refuses to go left, even when left = direction of home...strange thing. Anywho, we got over that by spending a good hour practising turning left and right and walking forwards and backwards and eventually walked up and down the path in question without a fuss (although I did have to nudge her along every single step of the way, but we got there...eventually!). Usually when she's stopped, she stands dead still and either looks straight on but refuses to go that way and will try to turn for home every time I ask her to go forwards OR she stands dead still with her head pointing in the direction she wants to go and will only move forward if its into that direction. Either way she tenses all of her neck muscles and braces against you unless you ask her to go where she wants to go...a good thing I found was to stop her and make her stand still and if you sit quietly with relaxed legs and no tension in reins (although short enough to have slight tension should she try to move away before being asked to) then she relaxed her neck and then I was able to ask her to bend/turn/move round in the direction I wanted her to go in without a problem!
She is a funny old thing though that one, but that's what worked for me!
I think there are quite a few behaviours considered to be napping, but generally its when they refuse to go forward or will jog everywhere when asked to walk.
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Post by dannyboy on Aug 7, 2008 21:36:29 GMT
Can it be dangerous? does it involve rearing etc: or is that behavioural?
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Post by duckles on Aug 7, 2008 22:01:32 GMT
Can involve rearing if your horse is a rearer. My lovely first horse was. She was a good hacker but got a bad fright with a big artic lorry and started to get nappy, rearing etc to get out of leaving the yard. Got her over it but wish I had all the knowledge then that I do now. Spinning on the road, going backwards, planting the feet and not moving, running for home, bucking- they have a whole bottomnal! Fortunately, few horses (if any) do all the above and judging by the success stories that are going about (well Fimg and Ceej) - it can all be overcome. It can be dangerous if the horse is so frightened or insecure or lacking in trust that he does something really silly. It can be really frightening for the rider. If the unfrighting type, its very fraustrating and annoying.
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Post by maximum on Aug 8, 2008 9:33:53 GMT
napping is really a cover all expression for a horse that refuses to move forward away from the leg.
it can be minor like walking backwards,crabbing sideways or major like rearing and spinning round.
re-education is needed and the horse taught to move forward.
not same as spooking when the horse has something it actually fears but there is a blurred line between the 2 sometimes, its knowing the difference.
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Post by fimacg on Aug 8, 2008 11:48:56 GMT
Chompy's naps go as follws.
halt,
immobility,
bum swing left
bum swing right
If I put too much pressure on him to go forward , we go straight up in the air on two legs (funnily enough I never felt unsafe when he did this)
then we go backwards into a tree, ditch, hedge, or whatever is at the side of the road ( this bit scares me silly)
forward three paces up verge on wrong side of road (it is a single track lane and he never naps if there is traffic),
try to spin for home,
circle
circle
circle
circle
circle
circle
etc
etc
etc
bum swinging
OK mum lets go then....
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Post by spotti on Aug 8, 2008 12:09:18 GMT
Danny, napping can be dangerous depending on where it happens and to what extent the horse does it.
I can only speak from personal experience here, but I think the spinning bit is the worst, especially if it happens on a road with a car coming (luckily that's not happened to us yet, but that is precisely why I'm staying well away from roads until I know she is well and truly over being silly).
Rearing is scary when it first happens, but it was Faith that taught me to sit to rears so she hasn't as of yet managed to get me off/get her own way by doing it, so generally she only does it out of confusion/fear now.
Refusing to move is more annoying than anything, although I can imagine being terrified if she did it on a road with cars about.
Backing up could be dangerous, but as long as you take control of the 'back' then you can recover control of the 'forward' too and get going again (sounds easier than it actually is, but it IS do-able).
Walking sideways - never had it done but no doubt I'll be faced with that once I get back in the saddle again now I've said that.
And bucking is one thing that I hate. It really unseats me and sends me flying. You can guarantee that one buck I'll recover from, anymore and I'm off! *whispers the above so Faith doesn't hear it and get any ideas...*
Fimacg - lol about Chompy, but didn't you say he was getting better? I love the bit about circle, circle, circle etc etc bum swinging and then "OK mum, let's go" - typical horse that isn't;t it?!?!?! All that time and stress and then they just do what you want as and when they feel like it...cheeky monkeys!
*modified because I can't spell (and neither can the spellchecker!)
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Post by fimacg on Aug 8, 2008 13:40:56 GMT
Spotti he is getting a lot better now, he uses to nap evey 50 meters and now we can go out on hacks without him doing it at all, but then if it is really scary and I put too much pressure on then he reverts to his bad behaviour.
2 really ueseful tricks I have learn't - one swishing a dressage stick up and own beside him (so it makes a noise but doesn't hit him) can effectively unlock his feet also tapping the dressage stick against my boot again to make a noise but not hit him also works a treat.
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Post by Becca on Aug 8, 2008 15:27:36 GMT
At my first yard Bern used went through a phase of napping to the gate in the scool when i rode him alone. one time at a mini show we held, i decided to attempt dressage !!!!!!!! He bolted across the school from walk straight into the gate (5 people leaning against the other side to try stop him getting out) I believe there is still a dent in it to this day  I think it was maxie that said you need to work out if it is fear or napping? This is so true because if the horse i genuinely scared you then need to work on what the horse is scared of directly rather than long term working on the reason they nap. |
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Post by spotti on Aug 8, 2008 17:54:19 GMT
Dressage stick...will try that one!
And Becca, if that was aimed at me then I think she was just being silly, although could have been reluctanct to go on the path because she could see other horses in the field alongside but she didn't know these horses so seemed wary of them.
I agree completely with the 'find the root of the problem and treat it, don't just treat the symptoms' way of thinking because in the long run if you just treat symptoms then you usually end up with a bigger problem than you started with!
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for so much hard work we thank ye!!
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Always saddle your own horse