Overbending/behind the bit?

[racaille]

At last Paco has agreed to go round and on the bit (no gadgets either ;D). It takes about a 10minute warm-up before he will deign to start working (this feels about normal - I know some horses work properly from the off, but I'm not asking for miracles).
As soon as he goes round he feels great and a light contact is all he needs. But the problem is that after a while he exaggerates and will tuck his head almost against his chest (is this behind the bit in your language?) or will try to drop his head almost between his legs - not good in a horse that can buck.

All the usual checks have been done. This is all new to us. I confess I haven't paid as much attention to his way of going as I should have and it was only the Saumur prof's diagnosis of Paco as very fit but unschooled - and then his exercises - that goaded me into getting down to work.

Is this Paco just learning? I try to ride him through it when he does it and it generally works ..... until he tries it again. I'm not hanging onto his gob, either.

Any ideas/exercises? Or should I chill out?

[solomon]

When Peter drops his head it sometimes feels like its on the floor, RI says i need to give him a contact to go into so the six million dollar question is how much do we hang on to their gobs!Sometimes it seems that the contact is too light and up he bobs again and then he will sometimes just lose impulsion and 'die' on me, guess you don't have that with Paco?!

[racaille]

It's a good question, Sol! I'm forever worrying that the contact is too strong so I try to be lighter only to be told that Paco needs more, then I overdo it and pull at his gob!

I talk to my RI about this today and she told me that it is an evasion so that he doesn't have to work his back properly and means that he can't even see terribly well. The trick, she said, is to raise my hands ('action discontinue' - this phrase applies to everything here, it means you give the aid then release, give it again, release etc) and as he raises his head, I then lower my hands while riding strongly forward. It works, but I need more practice.

Typical Paco to find another new way to evade.

[fimacg]

Thats one of Chompy's tricks too, I find leg on and drive him forward into the bridle again works for Chomps.

[brigadier]

It is an evasion and can lead to them fiddling with their tongue etc. As Fi says- drive forwards with the leg. Ive used the raised hands technique and it does work to get the head up a touch but you also need to get him more active in the hock. He may also do this because he is bored- if its happening when you are doing circles etc then introduce more variety to keep his mind active! Something like lengthening and shortening the stride on the circle or work small to large circles by leg yield into canter on the large circle- that will get him using his ar*e!

[fleabitten]

There is a horse at my riding school that does this - he automatically goes on the bit and overbends really easily - Ive heard my RI telling the rider to put their hands forward/let the reins out a bit (sometimes they are holding too tight) and ride forwards - so a similar solution to what has been said.

[racaille]

Thanks guys! And Brig I am sure you are right, he's bored (and he does chomp at the bit too) so I will give him more to think about as you suggest. Cheers

[brigadier]

Its a real dilemma Racaille as once they are carrying themselves in a way they can utilise themselves better- you want to establish rhythm and uniformity and the way to do that is repetitive exercises, lots of circles/sepentines etc but then they get bored and start messing. It sounds like youve cracked the above bit scenario with Paco so he is trying the behind the bit to still have his say- you've to crack his mind now and work out where he is coming from then you can sort it- until then its all by trial and error!

[racaille]

Hmmm though, this trial and error thing just seems to go forever! We've been together nearly five years (in August) and just when I think we have cracked one thing, he finds a way to have the last word.
I am sure I don't school enough but he does get bored very quickly (attention span of a gnat) so I will have to change my regime to 10 good quality minutes and then hack out (or vice versa) rather than a longer session. He's the same on the lunge - and I have to say i don't blame a horsie getting bored trotting round in circles, so I keep it very short but regular.
It does seem though that at the moment he just spends his time thinking of little tricks to outwit me Or perhaps if I was a better rider I would not have this constant battle with him?

[brigadier]

Or is it because you are getting a better rider you are realising what he is doing- it doesnt get easier you know....ever!
And with those words of encouragement.............

[maximum]

I think brig is right- you are getting better and these things are something you would not have noticed before!! its all a learning curve!

get thee to brigs workout stuff!

[brigadier]

yes....we must add to that Maxi when I get back from hols!

[maximum]

yes we did say monthly updates!! oops