Heels Down, Toes In?

[Blonde Donkey]

Has anyone got any exercises for keeping toes in and heels down. If you have seen any of my vids you will see that i have a horrific lower leg (partly self preservation partly a fecked ankle)
I do a lot of work with no stirrups as i really quite like it (mental never) and yes my balance is ok but i can never get my heels down and toes in. Have tried the old toes up but i ummm ...; got confused about which part of my foot was which (oops).
Any advice is greatly appreciated.

[kitcat]

No advice really as I have the same problem with the toes out. When I try to turn them in I end up gripping with my knees more. To get my heels down I push my knees back more.

[brigadier]

How do you stand on the ground Savs, If your feet are always at ten past two it matters not what you do on the horse- its your conformation!
That said some people stick their toes out because they are gripping somewhere else, usually the thighs which should lay soft flat and flabby on the saddle, try taking your hand round the back of your thigh, slide it between the saddle and the muscle and pull the inner thigh muscle back to help your thigh lay flat.
Also heels come up when gripping with the knees so you really need to ensure your leg is relaxed, work without stirrups is fine as long as you arent using your muscles to stay in the saddle- it has to be your balance, so if you grip at all then dont work without stirrups as its counter- productive. Ride with your stirrups and concentrate on feeling the ankle and knee give with every bounce, like a door hinge, pull your tummy in and feel the bounce up and out of your tummy muscles making sure you keep your buttocks soft. the exercise in the workout where you feel for the rising trot is a good one to help you relax more. Also the warm up exercises will help all your joints.

[ronansmum2]

But to get your leg/heel on don't you have to have your toes turned out a bit.

P who teaches me is always coming over, grabbing my foot and shoving my heel into Ro's side thus pushing out my toes. See what I mean? Especially when you are doing circles.

And in keeping your knees off the saddle you also push your toes out, well I do anyway..

Very confusing cos I know classical encourages you to have your knees on the saddle and your feet level. i.e. no heels down..

It seems there are as many opinions on ways to ride "properly" as there are opinions on perfume.

[Blonde Donkey]

Thank you Brig
I stand with both feet feet pointing in opposite directions (pointing out) so maybe it is just me.
I do tend to grip with my thighs and my knees for self preservation.
Would longer stirrups work as i do tend to ride quite short (my dressage length is my mums SJ and we're both same height and leg length)
I think my balance is ok but am going to get the old Gym Ball out again to keep working on it.
Thank you i am off to the workout page to do some Research
Karma coming you're way

[Blonde Donkey]

Mar 18, 2009 10:33:19 GMT @ronansmum2 said:

But to get your leg/heel on don't you have to have your toes turned out a bit.

P who teaches me is always coming over, grabbing my foot and shoving my heel into Ro's side thus pushing out my toes. See what I mean? Especially when you are doing circles.

And in keeping your knees off the saddle you also push your toes out, well I do anyway..

Very confusing cos I know classical encourages you to have your knees on the saddle and your feet level. i.e. no heels down..

It seems there are as many opinions on ways to ride "properly" as there are opinions on perfume.

My PC instructor used to do this a lot (well stopped when she jammed too hard and savs kicked out)
I can get my toes in but it takes a lot of concentration and sometimes there are other things to think of (hands, seat and voice) and i go all to pot
I was going to try those stirrups straps but i hate any gadgets and would rather work hard and get there on my own with good advice

I do worry cos although i am small in height i am quite heavy for my height (5ft and 9.5/10 st) so i want to be riding light all the time (which will come with balance i'm sure)
I have noticed when i put my leg that my toe goes out but also my heel goes up but then stays there

[Becca]

You said you ride without stirrups a lot, are your stirrups long or shirt when you have them? I hate short stirrups, and tend to grip in the wrong place. If i have them nice and long i relax and find it easier.

Also you could have tense calf muscles, try standing on a step with your heels hanging over the edge far enough that you can bounce gentley to stretch the calf muscle (make sure you are warm before this though, don't want to snap something) do it foe a bit each day and should make your calves a bit more supple

[Blonde Donkey]

I ride very short. With having little legs it makes it a bit easier for me.
I do ride long sometimes.

[spotti]

I find that if I've not ridden for a while that I have to start off short otherwise I just can't find any balance! Usually, after a day or two's riding, I lengthen my stirrups bit by bit until they are lovely and long yet my legs still feel comofrtably supported with weight in my heels...I guess this must just come with time as your muscles get used to riding again.

Have you been riding at all since Savvy went out of work all those years ago? If not then that could explain the shortened calves...

[Blonde Donkey]

I have ridden a bit, mainly just breaking/backing or slow hacking on a friends highland or brax but nothing particularly strenuos and never really more than a trot.
I have been pratting about at the gym with mates but more cardio than muscular.

[brigadier]

Savs I think you need to work on your balance on the horse- can you have lunge lessons, on a really quiet steady horse?

Ronansmum- havent yet gone back to the perfume thread but shall rush now to have a look!!!

I tend to follow the classical riding school of thought where the knee should lay flat on the saddle. I was taught the knee off method and its counter productive,(for me in any case) makes you tense your bum and lose your seat, puts strain on the inside ligaments on the knee and if you try to ride with your toes in it puts strain on the outside muscles of your ankle and makes them weak. I also use the inside of my calf to guide the horse (easier now Ive got a smaller horse) as I would need to draw up my heel to use it which is not a good habit to get into.

Allsaid, there are lots of methods taught nowadays and its about finding the one to suit.

[ceej]

there was another thread in here about this I think.....



.....yup - ive bumped it. Its called toes and independant seat (so I dont ahve to re-do the exercises!) one of my feet is straight - the other points towards about 1.30pm!!! It doesnt help athough I have trained them both straight now...to the detriment of my right knee which hurts now!

[Blonde Donkey]

Thanks Ceej

Brig - I'm gonna have a word with my mum about stealing Brax for a lunge lesson or might ask if i can borrow her boss's dressage horse for lunge lessons

[racaille]

This might seem a bit random but I'm going to venture an opinion (eeek!)....

I see this problem quite a lot and it often seems related to a) short stirrups - get them down girlies!!!!! (Oooo-er, that didn't come out right........) and b) having your foot right through the stirrup. Here we encourage folk to have the stirrup almost on your toes rather than the ball of your foot. Believe me, it is a lot harder to lift your heel.

[Blonde Donkey]

ooh will try that i do tend to have my stirrup too far back on my foot.

[brigadier]

thats true Racaille, sometimes where and how much pressure the rider uses on the stirrup affects everything else.
Robert Smith was hailed as a great rider back inthe seventies when he started jumping on the international circuit as he rode with his tippy toes.

Only thing to watch out for though is that it can encourage you to bring the leg too far forward and make you loose in your lower leg as you need to swing it to use it.

[rainbow]

I have used those equilbruim symmetry lower leg trainning strap, and i must admit even only using it twice it did help my leg! Although they do need some more velcro as it kept coming undone with a little pressure.
I am now able to sit into canter which i always struggled with.

Link www.equilibriumproducts.com/training_aids/essentials_symmetry_lower_leg_training_strap/

[Blonde Donkey]

Thanks for the link Rainbow
My cousin has a set so may borrow them to see how they feel

[rainbow]

they feel quite odd to start with as u can change how much u can move ur leg. I had it quite tight so wasnt able to move it much, just enough to give a squeeze thats why they came undone for me as sam often needs a good boot
The instructions to put them on can get quite confuseing but its simple once u knw how.
But i think they do work and are very discrete so cant really see them.
As i said ive only used them a couple of times and mossh has even said there has been a really big improvement with my legs (especially the trot before the canter is what i struggled sitting too)

[Blonde Donkey]

well i have spent the afternoon in the saddle. I tried the standing in stirrups method and the riding on tippy toes method. I have seen a improvement in my left leg but my right ankle won't let me point my toes in but my heels do go down with a bit of persuasion. Gonna stick at it but i think my right ankle is fecked from the damage it has had inflicted on it over the years.
Thank you guys and any more ideas are welcome

[duckles]

Would you try a bit of physio on your ankle?? Even one or 2 sessions could help.
I think the excercises given are excellent so nothing really to add to them. I know with myself that if I am wrong in my lower leg, it usually comes from me being tight in the pelvis/seat so riding without stirrups or other seat excercises help but obviously that is not your problem. The standing up excercise, I find fantastic for balance, even weight, stretching calves, everything really (so why don't I do it more often???)

[Blonde Donkey]

I think physio is a good idea but my physio (the only one i trust - we're related in some way is over the other side of the world but i am booked in for a session when she gets back to try and sort out that my back and my shoulder

[duckles]

Yea - do it quick- I left shoulder and neck problems (from falls) go on for years thinking they would clear up. So I hope she is back soon. You will notice the difference with your riding when these are treated. (as well as not being in pain the whole time!!!)
You're prob right to wait for physio you trust but dont leave it too long

[dreamer]

I have the same problem when I ride no matter what I try I cannot get my toe's in and when I do my ankle really hurts!

I do think part of it is I stand slightly with my toes out according to other people so maybe that's why?

[fallible]

I have arthritis in my ankles, a product i am sure of years of riding with heals down on fast horses.
I watched a lesson last year and the thinking was, the foot should be parallel to the ground, not forced into a painful and distracting position. The weight of a properly positioned leg, keeping your foot in the stirrup. The instructor stood the girl on the ground and asked her to 'assume the position' then pointed out that if she stood on either her toes or her heels, she would fall over.
Food for thought!