ceej
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Post by ceej on Sept 26, 2008 8:50:30 GMT
This isn't a question, but I figured its a very common complaint and I am sure loads of people have helpful hints. toes sticking out and not having an independent seat. I put these together as I think generally (not always) legs are not secure and independent of your toes are sticking out as it means the wrong part of your leg on on the saddle. I was trying to keep my toes in yet my knee was sticking out - its impossible!! - methinks this could be quite a common thing and it seems so obvious once mum pointed it out but before - no idea!!
Now I have lamented lots of times about my independent seat - I used to have it and couldn't find it again after the break. Mum gave me two hints/exercises and its like PING! coming back...ooooh its lovely AND my back has stopped aching!!!
It may not work for everyone but it has for me so this is what she said...
When sitting on Harry my toes kept sticking out (they NEVER used to!). She said, rather that trying to keep them in (ow) stand up in the stirrups so that toes and knees are facing forward and re-sit, keeping them in the same place...a different part of your leg is against the saddle (rather than the middle and back of the thigh, the middle and forward part of the thigh. If you still struggles, whilst sitting on the horse, grab your thigh from behind and pull it back. (god this is really hard to explain!) I will post some pics...
2 Exercise: Stand on the floor. put your toes together but your heels slightly apart (a couple of inches). Bend you legs and put your knees together. Try to straighten your legs, keeping your knees together. If you can straighten them, repeat the exercise with your heels further apart. I found this very difficult (I am naturally a little 10 to 2!!!) but it had reminded my muscles and now I find the seat much easier...my legs are starting to naturally sit where they should again and my pelvis is relaxed as a consequence.
Like I say it may not work for everyone and I may have explained it very badly but it has helped me!
and now my camera battery has run out - I will do a demo later on the swiss ball!!!
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Post by brigadier on Sept 26, 2008 10:42:41 GMT
Great exercises Ceej!
Another one to help you understand how your leg needs to be independant of your seat is
whilst sitting in the saddle with a nice straight back- lift the whole of your leg out from the side of the saddle ( dont bend the leg up- just lift it straight out so theres about two inches clearance all the way from your ankle up to your crotch!) Then let the leg rest naturally back in place- it should be relaxed and just lay on the saddle like a wet cloth. Repeat several times on both sides alternatively then try both together at once. Great for tightness in the hips!
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ceej
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Post by ceej on Sept 26, 2008 10:56:18 GMT
argh I always get cramp in my hip doping that...mother tried that one too! get it terrible!
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Post by brigadier on Sept 26, 2008 11:08:57 GMT
Keep doing it then........! Its really effective but build up gradually if it really hurts so you dont pull anything- seriously its showing where your toes problem could originate, however if youre a little toes out naturally then you will always be a little- its more about toes out caused by gripping that presents problems- you cant force something thats natural or youll just compensate elsewhere!
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Post by spotti on Sept 26, 2008 11:57:00 GMT
That's genius! Definitely a common problem and one that isn't always easy to fix because you have to build up your muscles AND break bad habits at the same time, but you have to do it over time...nothing works over night!!
I'll have to try those exercises Ceej because my toes ALWAYS stick out and my back ends up hurting because of it (but only when I have stirrups, any ideas??? Guess I'll do some more work without stirrups and then see if I can make my feet co-operate when I have stirrups lol!)
And Brig - brilliant as always! I already do the lifting the leg away from the saddle thing because after having almost a year out of riding (give or take the odd ride which to be honest were pretty much just letting Faith do what she wanted and slowly working on getting her to listen properly) I seem to have completely lost my seat bones and now lean forward all the time and any balance I once had has well and truly gone!
Lifting my legs away helps me find my seatbones again and also reminds me to lean back a bit so that I'm actually upright instead of leaning forward because otherwise I tend to tip forward and risk falling off!!!
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Post by duckles on Sept 26, 2008 12:06:54 GMT
Great tips- Brig, your one is really hard I have tried it- my leg comes out (hurting of course) but very hard to keep upright and straight. So I give up!!! Must go back to it.
Ceej- think i'm doing something wrong as the bending one was a bit too easy for me- so I think I need the photos to do it right. The one about standing in the saddle is a good one and I think you explained it very clearly.
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Post by fimacg on Sept 26, 2008 13:02:51 GMT
I have the opposite problem, anyone got any tips for making your toes stick out more, due to a variety of injuries in my left leg i.e. ankle and hip (have so far I've managed to avoid damaging that left knee) my toes curl in, so I need to open my ankle and knee more on that side.
why do I always Have to be different?
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Post by spotti on Sept 26, 2008 13:28:24 GMT
I have the opposite problem, anyone got any tips for making your toes stick out more, due to a variety of injuries in my left leg i.e. ankle and hip (have so far I've managed to avoid damaging that left knee) my toes curl in, so I need to open my ankle and knee more on that side. why do I always Have to be different? It's because you're special!  |
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Post by brigadier on Sept 26, 2008 13:30:31 GMT
Fi- your not- it means the outside of your ankle and calf are weak! You need one of those stretchy bands- lay flat on the bed on your back and place your feet in the elastic band about 18" apart then with the elastic around your feet (around the ball part)stretch your feet out keeping your legs straight- that will toughen up your ankles. The physio told me that one as my toes used to turn in! My left one still does a touch as thats the weakest. I broke the outside small bone in that ankle so have to work that exercise constantly. Ill do you a ceej style pic if you dont understand my explanation.
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ceej
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Post by ceej on Sept 26, 2008 13:56:17 GMT
I'll have to try those exercises Ceej because my toes ALWAYS stick out and my back ends up hurting because of it (but only when I have stirrups, any ideas??? Guess I'll do some more work without stirrups and then see if I can make my feet co-operate when I have stirrups lol!) are your stirrups a bit short, putting you in the wrong position? Try them a hole or two down for a bit..? |
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ceej
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Post by ceej on Sept 26, 2008 14:05:16 GMT
Keep doing it then........! Its really effective but build up gradually if it really hurts so you dont pull anything- seriously its showing where your toes problem could originate, however if youre a little toes out naturally then you will always be a little- its more about toes out caused by gripping that presents problems- you cant force something thats natural or youll just compensate elsewhere! they are more 11.30 to 12.30 really! but riding made them straight - they have only gone out since I stopped riding. I don't know why I find the hip one so hard as I can nearly do the splits, but doing certainly things makes it cramp on the right hip (some urm positions do that too!!! very funny lol!) always have. Starting up pilates again soon so that may help! Is there any exercises I can do to build up to the hip one whilst on board - my right hip clearly lacks strength - it was the one that Willow ran over when I was a kid though ;D - out bareback, cantering downhill  and he tripped and I went straight over his head!! he ran over me though - not so good!. Bless him he was mortified! When I use to ride my toes were perfect - it was always one of my major strenths...my seat was very independent so I rarely fell off...(thats why I over horsed myself when i started riding again 4 years later but the muscles weren't there and I got bucked off!!) For me it seems to be more muscle memory and these two exercises have really helped them remember...now they have remembered they just get stronger every time I ride. I only realised it yesterday when I was out hacking and Harry did an almighty spook at some cows in the gateway (pheasants flying overhed..no prob...TERRIFYING COW) and I realised I hadn't been thrown off balance at all and my legs felt really secure....aww i love it. That only lasts for the first 20 minutes though and then fatigue sets in!! |
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Post by spotti on Sept 26, 2008 15:21:44 GMT
Ceej - probably! but having not ridden for so long my legs feel short and I don't feel very secure with longer stirrups (I know you are more secure with longer stirrups, but if my feet don't reach them/tip downwards then it defeats the point!) but I was doing (well, once lol before I broke my ponio and can't ride again yet...until after tonight YAY!) a bit of longreining in the school to warm her up/loosen her up and get her listening and then swapping my longreins for proper reins and hopping on for a bit of walking with stirrups and then more walking without stirrups. I have to take my stirrups back again though for any trotting because I have no stomach muscles at the moment and seem to tip forward onto the wrong bit of my bum (ouch!) and fall all over the place! I find the longreining is brilliant because it gets us both in the right frame of mind and also reduces the amount of time I have to 'think' about what I'm doing (not ridden long enough for it to come naturally straight away yet) so I can hop on and we can focus on actually trying to achieve something instead of faffing about for a while waiting for me to remember what I should be doing lol. I actually feel a LOT more secure without my stirrups at the moment and it makes me use my muscles to hold my legs in place instead of just relying on my stirrups the whole time, but I'm not strong enough/brave enough to try trotting just yet...Also my legs go in a much more 'dressage' position without my stirrups (still got to work on getting weight in my heels without stirrups though). Lifting legs away from saddle definitely helps my position even though it is quite hard work and I can only do it at halt at the minute  but we're working on it. Keep the good advice coming guys |
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Post by brigadier on Sept 26, 2008 18:02:46 GMT
Spotti- dont use the muscles in your legs to hold you in place without stirrups- its a self defeating exercise- youll build up your inner thigh muscles which'll please your boyfriend but not your horse!!!!! The muscles should be relaxed and (dare I say it)flabby with your seat coming from your balance and position. I accept there is a certain amount of gripping - its a natural reactio should you lose your position slightly but it has to come from balance- this could be why you are tipping as you are holding yourself in place and thatll tire you out. It hard really to tell exactly without seeing you. (pics/vid?) Ceej- working in reverse logic to what Fi was saying could be you are weak in the inner calf /ankle area so the reverse exercise to the one I described to Fi should work?  Also for your hip- do the stretch where you sit on your bum with your right leg over your left and foot placed on the floor on the outside of the left knee- put your left elbow on the outside of your raised right knee then twist your body round to the right as far as you can trying to look behind you. The other is to lean against a wall with your right side, stood up with legstogether and placed about twelve inches from wall, your right arm feels awkward trapped between the wall and your body- put your left hand on your left hip and push your pelvis towards the wall making it a stretch of the right side of your body. Laying on your left side and doing leg raises is really good and doing these stood up whilst waiting for the kettle to boil is also good- looks a little crazy! Don’t let your body interfere/ or move make it all come from the leg/hip. Pilates should really help- I should do it myself. Do you remember the Alexander Technique training for riders- that was all about making sure your body was aligned and in balance- its worth spending time on getting it right. Florence gave some really good exercises in the sitting straight thread also. Involves a table though so more cramp I suspect!!!! |
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Post by spotti on Sept 26, 2008 18:43:04 GMT
Oki doki Brig...right back to basics...need to learn how to sit properly again!
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Post by brigadier on Sept 26, 2008 18:54:15 GMT
spotti
look at the thread 'the importance of being straight' itll remind you how to check your seat is ok then its perseverence- theres no short cuts- as your muscles have to learn without you conciously telling them! good luck!!!!
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Post by florence on Sept 26, 2008 23:22:02 GMT
These tips are great for me. My left foot is okay, but my right turns out quite a lot. It does this on the ground, though, not just riding. Before I started having lessons again I was getting quite concerned about it as it was almost at quarter past! The old muscle memory thing must be kicking in as it's improving! I don't think it will ever be straight again but it shows how you can improve in a short time.
I was also told to do brigs exercise of lifting the leg away from the saddle and my hip just went into lock. That's because I pushed it too far and if you just do small movements (just an inch or two as brig said) that shouldn't happen.
I'm trying out the exercises as now and just I've been trying the knees together exercise and it's remarkably difficult!
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Post by duckles on Sept 29, 2008 10:47:34 GMT
Was riding at weekend and was very conscious of these tips. Sticking leg out to side still really really hard unless i bend knee or lean sideways. I resisted these evasions!! I found that riding COri, my toes went out in trot (a habit I think, from going into a driving seat as he can be lazy) so I kept thinking of the 'standing with knees over feet' and even just thinking of it got me right. I also concentrated on the seat bones (from the importance of being straight thread). Anyway the upshot of it all was I think I rode a bit better but i do have muscle twinges today. I always think that is a good sign!!! Keep up these virtual lessons please
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ceej
Administrator
im back.... :)
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Post by ceej on Sept 29, 2008 10:54:52 GMT
glad its helping ;D Re the hip excercise from Brigs - I have started doing it on the ground and OH has suggested I use a pilates band and lift leg out sideways to build up muscle...so doing that for aminute, which seems to be strengthening it...will give it another go on harry next time in school..  |
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Post by racaille on Sept 29, 2008 13:43:46 GMT
Yay, flabby muscles - that's my kinda thing!!! ;D
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Post by fleabitten on Mar 18, 2009 18:55:37 GMT
Funnily enough, I used to get yelled at a lot for toes sticking out but I feel secure enough in the saddle.
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Post by maximum on Apr 6, 2009 19:49:16 GMT
hey brig - I think putting those exercises in the workout section along with any others you can think of would be good.
like Rac I am waaaaayyy ahead on the flabby thigh thing! hehe
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for so much hard work we thank ye!!
and he tripped and I went straight over his head!! he ran over me though - not so good!. Bless him he was mortified!
but we're working on it. Keep the good advice coming guys 
