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Post by duckles on Jun 28, 2009 20:33:03 GMT
Of late JB has had a problem getting a left canter lead. It is a really new problem as he effortlessly gave the correct lead for years. I thought it might be because of all the treatment he got for his pelvis (the most recent being less than 3 weeks ago). I thought that perhaps now that his pelvis is correctly aligned, he is conscious of the change and is finding it hard to strike off. Does this make sense? Usually after a lot of work, it improves but it is depressing. I notice that the more engaged he is, the better the chance of getting it right. However today nothing worked. tips, similiar experiences would be great. (btw there is nothing wrong with my aids and I am really really careful about them at the moment - but to be honest, JB always was very sensitive to canter aids and strikes off as you think about it - this problem isn't really to do with him not knowing what to do) About the engagement thing, he is not at all used to lateral work, TOF, LY and rein back are about it (and they are not lateral work!!) but I could try and introduce shoulder in if you think that would be helpful - I have heard that it is very helpful but I kind of wanted him to be correct in the basics first. Also would building up the hind leg if different ways such as poles etc be more effective? At my wits end here so I would be very grateful for advice  Thanks |
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Post by racaille on Jun 28, 2009 21:12:45 GMT
You are not alone Duckles! You may well remember that I have struggled for (what has seemed like) years with Paco and left lead canter. All I can say is that things improved a lot after the osteo came out and 'did' him. But also, I was used to asking for canter from walk and he can do this effortlessly on right lead but really struggled on left. So I went back to asking for canter from sitting trot and have seen a big improvement. BUT ( and it is a big but) I have been more and more conscious that I am very feeble on my left side. To the extent that I think I need to see a quack. While I believe I place my aids well, I know that, for instance, any work that involves him moving away from my left leg is pretty poor. I have begun to see that Paco's left side problem is actually mine. I don't for a minute think you are enfeebled  But if you are right handed, as I am, it might be worth you doing some left-side strengthening exercises. Especially as he was was fine before. Also, it is worth checking your saddle fit - mine now doesn't, and that is something to add to the mix. (Yes, I have to buy a new one  ) |
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Post by brigadier on Jun 28, 2009 21:32:56 GMT
Do you know what Duckles- I struggled with right canter lead the last time I did canter work. I think I pushed the horse too hard and he decided to throw his teddy out of the cot! (it was always his weak lead - he showed that on the lunge) so my plan is to not push it for a bit whilst he gets it out of his head, I lunged him today and he struck off correct everytime, so I know its me and something Im doing. Why dont you try lungeing JB and see what that tells you. (more later- comp doing updates!)
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Post by duckles on Jun 28, 2009 22:08:26 GMT
Thanks Brig - lunging was actually the first thing I did as I initially assumed the problem was me- but he still is incorrect on the lunge. Actually he canters quite happily on the wrong leg - he doesn't go back to trot or anything. Sorry I should have mentioned the lunging thing. Racaille- I am not the most even of people alas but this problem is new and I've always being crooked Incidently I have started yoga recently and I have noticed a few improvements in my riding but the left lead thing is unaffected so far. I keep meaning to do a yoga thread and I will get around to it some day. |
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Post by fimacg on Jun 29, 2009 8:47:11 GMT
I always had this problem with Fig too, and he would quite happily canter on the wrong leg on the lunge although he did get it right more often than with me on top so I exacerbated the problem.
We tried a few tricks
1) this is fine for schooling, but wouldn't fancy it out in the open was to turn my body and look over my shoulder at his tail when asking for canter
2) leg yield up the long side and ask for canter just as you got back to the track
3) ask for canter over a pole on the corner
4) canter shallow 5m loops up the long side to get him more supple
and the simplest yet most effective
5) trot a 20m circle at the end of the school but ask for canter as you are approaching the wall/fence after X, this seems to make them think about it a bit more
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Post by brigadier on Jun 29, 2009 9:36:36 GMT
Duckles- Fi's exercises all make sense. The other one I can add is to work on the canter figure of eight making sure your change of rein through x is straight so you are facing E or B. This makes the circles really fat ones, theres no diagonal line at all. Canter right, change across x trotting only two/three strides before x then on X open and lift your left rein slightly and ask for canter left. Make sure your right rein is nice and tight so the shoulders do not escape. If he strikes off wrong then balance the trot and ask again. If he stikes wrong again then abandon and revert to the figure of eight asking for canter right across X. Eventually he will ge tthe message you want/need something different on the left rein.
When you set up the exercise. Try to make the left canter circle towards home or the gate so he is more inclined to give you the canter. Good luck- if you dont get the set up for the exercise message me your email and Ill do you a diagram.
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Post by duckles on Jun 29, 2009 19:40:35 GMT
Fi - great exercises - they are actually part of my repartorie of tricks - especially the 20m (or smaller) circle and the looking over backwards!! Great minds think alike. But they haven't been working so well lately. Actually I haven't tried the canter loops yet but it sounds a good one.
Brig - I am really pleased and delighted (and even a little surprised) to say that your exercise worked!!! I did it 5 times in a row and it worked on the second, forth and fifth left circle. I was so delighted, I then cantered him large in the arena 3/4 times pushing him on and he was totally fine and he cantered strongly and didn't want to go back to trot or anything which was great.
I have to admit I did enjoy the exercise although I found it quite hard to ie to get him back to trot and off to canter again all on the center line - I guess he is not that balanced and I am not too co ordinated but I can really recommend it.
I also prepared by walking and then trotting the circle and changing direction by a turn on the forehand - inspired by Fi's great lesson thread.
Thanks Racaille, Brig and Fi - to be honest it was kind of encouraging to know that riders such as yourselves have these problems from time to time as well.
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Post by fleabitten on Jun 29, 2009 20:01:02 GMT
Brig - I tried this exercise too with Kieran (not for any specific problem though) but havent done it in a few months - mine was basically just changing rein through trot across the middle (E to B) although I meant it to be a 2 loop serpentine (suppose thats the same thing though!! ) Anyway, like duckles, I found it hard to be quick enough to come back to trot and then back to canter in that space of time - I think I did it the first time and then he got a little strong after that, making it more difficult to come back to trot. I found it hard to do the round shapes as he wasnt fully under control - I find it dificult to get the speed built up and controlled and get a transition immediately (up or down), so I suppose its just practice! |
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Post by brigadier on Jun 30, 2009 15:46:08 GMT
Great news Duckles- I think the key is that the horses actually like this exercise once they get into it, it also gives them confidence once they start doing it. If you get problems later on use this one to get back on track. did it with Basil yesterday and had a great confidence building session. ts a good one for introducing flying changes later!!!!
Flea- persevere, remember your half halts! Its not about speed, its about getting him in front of your leg and underneath you, look at Fi's lesson thread like Duckles and try the Turn on the forehand into canter etc.
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Post by racaille on Jun 30, 2009 20:56:28 GMT
Duckles my petal, you have me confused with someone else (and I'm very flattered) I can stick on a horse (mostly) but I am a crap rider by any standards and this is not false modesty. The thing I do is long distance : show me a map and I can go anywhere but I lack finesse in the arena. Remember that lovely horsey pal who came to visit me a while ago? I learned more from her in one weekend than I have in years with my old RI. So me and the long-suffering gent Paco have gone right back to basics ..... ;D |
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Post by duckles on Jun 30, 2009 21:49:28 GMT
LOL Racaille- I haven't even left basics!!! Basics are good!
To be honest, as long as he is sound, JB is very rewarding, if I do it right or even half right, he goes beautifully and hides my faults. I always feel Cori is a bit contempuous of me and it takes a lot to make him work.
Get your friend back again - a good trainer is so hard to find
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Post by fleabitten on Jul 1, 2009 9:37:49 GMT
Brig - I think we are a long way away from TOF into canter. Was riding him last night and he was very lazy - felt brave enough to canter and I had to really boot to get him into canter and then he kept falling out of canter - I felt if I took my leg off (it was sort of gripped to his sides - I tried taking my leg off until he slowed down but that just made him trot) he would immediately fall into trot, but he did that anyway. I tried doing transitions trot-canter-trot and whilst I got the first trot-canter and then back to trot again I just could not get him back into canter - he just trotted faster. Walk was an improvement though and got a nice active hacking walk which makes a change - trotting, he was only really shuffling, not a nice bouncy trot like he used to do and even when I did get a nice more 'open' trot (which I did by pushing my hands up and forward and pretenting we were going for a gallop), and then when I straightened up again he was back to being all shuffly. Kicked on but he felt unbalanced and on a few of the corners he was falling in (like not turning round the bend, just running through his shoulder and feeling like he was getting his feet all tangled up.
One other thing I noticed was that the steering has much improved! Got nice balanced small circles at trot on both reins and no fighting!
Perhaps he is just not fit enough but I think this is unlikely because he was flippin cantering and bucking round the field later on - and I thought why couldnt you move on like that when I was riding??? Well, except for the bucking part lol!!
Still, hopefully getting a lesson today and will hopefully get some help with the laziness!
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Post by brigadier on Jul 1, 2009 13:30:07 GMT
Ha Flea I fear he is taking the P!
You can only get rhythm and balance and freedom of movement when the horse is in front of the leg. Its a double edged sword because if you are a bit nervy you want to feel you are pushing the horse a bit as that gives the rider confidence, but it means the horse is behind the leg. The only answer is to get really sharp with your aids. A light leg aid and if he doesnt answer a sharp reminder with the stick, if he bucks or doesnt answer another reminder until the horse is fair pinging! It sounds cruel but its not- think like this- to spend one session supporting every light aid with the stick, or to ride forever banging away at his sides?
(I cant remember the last time I flicked Basil with the whip and I cant remember the last time I kicked him either. But I can remember the half halts because I must do it a hundred times each session!)
When I say use half halts you can only do that if your horse is going somewhere- you cannot rebalance a horse that you are having to push. Have a careful think about what you are doing and what you want to achieve! your horse MUST be light to the leg- otherwise you may as well get off and carry it.
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Post by fleabitten on Jul 1, 2009 19:06:09 GMT
Brig, I think he may be lol! Helen says that when he has gone slow ive went 'oh all right then' cos i dont mind going slow, and now hes all lazy!! Will have to start getting after him with the stick from now on!
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for so much hard work we thank ye!!
