Two dumb questions

[racaille]

Here's the first dumb question: when you lot in the UK talk about napping, does it mean stopping or just looking hard or .... what exactly?
Here's number two: why won't some horses hack out alone? Is it just that they are not used to it? Or do you think some horses are just not temperamentally suited (I know it goes against their natural instinct, obviously). Can you teach it?
Discuss please ;D

[tina]

Napping covers a whole umbrella of things, people call different evasions/vices napping.

Generally not wanting to go out hacking alone is down to a horses insecurity, you need to spend time building their confidence up.

[kateflashy]

i always think of napping as when they wont go forward and regardless of how they exhibite the fact

[brigadier]

Napping- trying to evade deliberately anything you are asking them to do. Its like a wilful disobedience so would not be a horse that gets frustrated because it cannot understand what you are asking it.

Hacking out alone. Some horses are quite nervous but if they trust the rider they will do it. Its about trust essentially. Long reining a nervous horse helps because they have to be brave- go in front and face everything as 'lead' horse.

Brig

[aimee]

Napping! Pretty much what Brigadier said! An example of Fern napping would be going to cross a road, she dont want to leave the yard and her grass to go up into the scary bridle path, so she digs her heels in, I ask her forward, she goes backwards in protest, Throws head up and spins, I try turning her, she spins other way....A normal hack basically lol

Hacking alone, Its like you said its all down to their natural herd instinct. They are nervous about being alone and tend to spook more etc! Not all horses are like this tough its down to building their confidence up and getting them to trust you really

[racaille]

So pretty much any horse can learn - eventually LOL ;D - to hack out alone?

[brigadier]

Yes- deffo but it takes patience and firmess. If its done too harshly the horse simply will not trust the rider and will always have a problem!
brig

[racaille]

Thanks Brig - and what are you doing here at this time of day? ;D (I should be revising ... only 13 days until my exam )

[duckles]

I have been trying a long time to get Cori to hack out alone safely. I like to believe it will happen one day but there's not a whole lot of light at the end of the tunnel. I probably was a bit harsh in the past but have been kind and patient and firm for a few years now. Its doesn't help that the roads are quite bad where i am.

[brigadier]

Hi Duckles,
The problem with some drivers is that you can have built up your horses confidence to the extent that it copes with roads then a b****** skip with all its chains jangling and a driver with a brain the size of a pea will come past too close or too fast and kabamm! All that hard work for nothing! So roads do throw in a spanner. I loaned my first horse for a short while whilst I did some training- you could have ridden him on the motorway he was so good in traffic- when he came back he was a nervous wreck- it took ten weeks to ruin him and a year to get him back!
Brig

[duckles]

Yes Brig, that's exactly it. You are doing great and some stupid skip or articulated lorry or tractor comes along and your back to square one. I am encouraged that you managed to get your poor horse back to safe hacking after only a year. I wonder what the loaner did? Cori was bad in traffic when I got him (he is really my sister's horse but she's on an extended break) but I had got past his napping (he didn't and still doesn't like to leave his friends) and I had even got him coping with lorries and tractors but something happened. You mention trust and I think you are right, for some reason he lost his trust in me and started bolting on the roads. I have had a lot of bad experiences over the years on roads, rearing, bucking, spinning into traffic etc with different horses but it never got to me, I think because I always knew the reason but Cori starting to bolt on me (and it was true bolting not just running for home) really got to me as I couldn't understand it and it was very frightening and now I think you have just explained why ie loss of trust. Thank you! I am trying walking him on roads now and am hopeful it will help things. I do believe he trusts me at the moment but traffic being so dangerous kind of complicates everything. Once we are off the main road, its always ok. Thanks again.

[brigadier]

HI Duckles,
reading about your bolting experience made me think of something. It seems totally unconnected but bear with me!!!!!

When I first started riding seriously I invested in some lessons with a local trainer who was also a dealer. (His wife was a seriously good eventer/dressage rider) Brigadier the horse I had was only six and a CB/TB cross who was a lovely horse with a bit of side to him but paces to die for! Brig was really stiff and I was really crap and Roger the trainer was asking me to shorten and collect the trot- all of a sudden the horse felt wonderful- really springy and soft- Roger made this explosive noise and shouted to stop what I was doing and kick him on, I immediately pulled poor Brig in the mouth and kicked him forward, then rode to Roger and asked what I had done. He told me the horse wasnt ready for work like that but wouldnt tell me what I had done (I was only twenty and a bit naive so didnt push it further)

It wasnt until some time later when I developed as a rider that i realized that he had given me passage! the lovely generous horse had given me at six what some riders never get from their horse despite years of work and I had gobbed him and by my actions told him it was wrong- guess what? He never gave me it again and was really difficult from then on in to get more than a passable medium trot from.
Thanks for bearing with me because this is where it may help. When a horse is frightened in traffic our immediate reaction is to grab the reins- effectively we gob them- and the more tense we are the more we hurt them because we dont realise what we are doing. So the next time something big approaches, the horse remembers and is scared and panics because it knows it is going to get hurt, so it bolts etc. Just like Brig- the next time I asked for collection/engagement he wouldnt give me anything because a/ he didnt trust me and b/ it might hurt.

I now always ride with a mammy strap and if there is the chance I may grab the reins for support I grab the strap instead and simply retain the same contact. It takes a bit of getting used to but you teach the horse you will never gob it or hurt it when its frightened, you will simply keep riding.
Quite often the best thing you can do on a frightened horse is nothing and the hardest thing to do is nothing! Does all that make sense?

The end of the Brig story is quite amusing. The next lesson I had the trainers wife offered to ride him, I was really flattered!!!
The week after Roger offered me a ride on one of his horses- a lovely big palomino that was for sale (said I was doing him a favour exercising it) then guess what- they offered me a swap, the palomino for Brig! I obviously didnt take it but I do wonder what would have happened to Brig if they had got him- how far would he have gone? I always think you ruin your first horse because you make all your mistakes with them- I certainly ruined Brig but he taught me so much that I shall always have a place in my heart for him!
Brig

[duckles]

Brib- that story is so sad. I have to say that your trainer shouldn't have shouted and said what he did, he could have been a lot quieter and then offering to swap horses- a bit of a chancer I think. I am haunted by so many things I have done to horses over the years all out of ignorance or following bad advice of trainers or friends. But I should have known better. I get your point of course and you are so right. As at matter of fact I finally got my re flocked saddle and did hack out Cori today. It went well, I was particularly conscious to be encouraging and patient and he did appreciate it.

[brigadier]

Hey thats great i hope you enjoyed it!
brig

[fimacg]

napping = refusing to go forward, in Chompys case it gerneally invlved a rear and spin, I am getting better about when he tries it on though he starts to poke his nose out in front of him as far as possible about 5 strides before so if I can beat him to it by asking him a random question such as a left turn or a gallop up up field margin he forgets about it.