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Post by brigadier on May 13, 2008 7:14:06 GMT
Following my post re Basils tongue, Ive tried the drop that Zara kindly sent me. The response was amazing, he was lovely and light and soft in the mouth, he mouthed the bit but no gurning or tongue flapping, and was so much softer on the right rein. I had noticed that he frothed up more on the right but had just thought this was coincidence! I think that somethng may have been irratating him between the bit and the cavesson, possibly his molars coming through and the gurning and flapping was happening when he was bored as he could dwell on it then! The difference is amazing= how on earth did drop nosebands go out of fashion? They give young horses the space to develop their teeth- Maxie- did you get that one from Ebay? I need a black one f/s (Zaras is brown so am only loaning it) I saw some the other day (three) being auctioned and one was a black one , they didnt sell (wish Id b***** bid now!  so will split with you should a similar auction occur! BAN EVIL FLASH NOSEBANDS!!!!!!!! Brig x |
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Post by Maes Seren on May 13, 2008 8:04:59 GMT
Ive never tried a drop, but have heard good results about them.
I dont think that banning flash nosebands is a good idea though! When used correctly, they arent harmful, but some horses just dont like them. Ive seen people do the flash up first, then the cavesson which makes me cringe though!
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Post by brigadier on May 13, 2008 16:04:57 GMT
Mae- they are harmful, they fasten across an area of the horses face where there is the concentration of most of their facial muscles, it would be like putting a bulldog clip on your nipple and expecting you to be happy (not accounting for sexual tastes etc........) Constant pressure on this area leads to numbness, tissue scarring and even death of the facial tissue- how can that not be harmful? People simply do not realise- its like the bearing rein of the twenty first century.
brig
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Post by zara on May 13, 2008 16:41:22 GMT
Hi Brig, Good to hear that the drop has helped. I was at Chatsworth on Sunday wandering around the stalls and I was amazed that it is almost impossible to get a bridle without a flash! Why is this? Has the world gone mad?
When I bought AJ he came with all his tack which includeed a flash and running martingale. I ditched the flash asap but still got the martingale much to my annoyance but ... my nerve won't let me give it up - did try but got smacked in nose by his head when he decided he wanted an argument Zx
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Post by aimee on May 13, 2008 17:16:19 GMT
Same with Fern, In her for sale advert picture she had a flash and a martingale. I took them off the bridle as sson as I got home so I could make my own judgements on whether she needed them or not...Not been 1 incident since I've had her that has even made me even think about getting her a flash or a martingale! Mades me think of my old friend that had both on her horse because they 'looked nice', must have been the same thing with Fern. Now I have even taken her cavesson off because you have that annoying flappy bit of leather where the flash should be!
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haffyfan
Administrator 
is pressing random buttons...sorry guys
Posts: 7,391
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Post by haffyfan on May 13, 2008 17:36:27 GMT
Brig..if you can find them again why don't you ask the seller if she will sell them to you or re-list?
Glad it worked btw.
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Post by brigadier on May 13, 2008 17:44:41 GMT
Oh haffy I am dumb- I never thought of that! duh
have a karma for shear brilliance!
Hi Zara/Aimee- glad youre of the same/similar opinion- I too would use a martingale if needed- I actually prefer a Harbridge if the horse throws its head violently as it gets the message very quickly- but it has no offect on them otherwise. the martingale is similar but the action is less distinct, very useful for jumping though which you cant do in a Harbridge (or I wouldnt like to!)
brig x
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Post by racaille on May 13, 2008 18:34:32 GMT
Well, either I'm argumentative or I need educating (you be the judge!) I don't understand the difference in action between a flash and a drop (assuming that what you call a drop is what we call a German noseband - fastens over the bit, below the reins).
On the other hand I have NEVER seen a horse down here in a martingale. A horse chucking it head around is assumed first to have a discomfort problem. When that is ruled out we assume is it is disobedience and he will be schooled out of it. Actually, I once turned down an otherwise nice horse that I was offered for sale because he was a head-shaker. Why buy a horse with a known problem?
Go on then, shoot me down .....
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Post by Maes Seren on May 13, 2008 18:58:34 GMT
Mae- they are harmful, they fasten across an area of the horses face where there is the concentration of most of their facial muscles, it would be like putting a bulldog clip on your nipple and expecting you to be happy (not accounting for sexual tastes etc........) Constant pressure on this area leads to numbness, tissue scarring and even death of the facial tissue- how can that not be harmful? People simply do not realise- its like the bearing rein of the twenty first century. brig Yes, but if done up correctly a drop noseband would sit on the cartilage of the horses nose, and if done up too tighly ... surely the cartilage would break... like that of a horse with a flash? |
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jangles
Whipper Snapper
What happens if you get scared half to death twice??
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Post by jangles on May 13, 2008 20:15:20 GMT
If only I had known sooner, I just gave away a black f/s drop noseband the other week lol!
Can you not just get one from one of the mail order sites?
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Post by brigadier on May 13, 2008 20:57:00 GMT
HI Mae
The idea is that they sit on the bone and fasten under the bit- yes if fastened too low and too tight then the cartilage would be damaged but thats a fitting problem not a construction problem. Thats a similar arguement to saying if you put a girth on twisted it would cause rubs!
The construction of the flash is inherently wrong. the horses top jaw is wider than the bottom so fastening both straps of the flash- the cavesson part and the flash part causes pressure on the inside of the cheeks of the horse, as it would pinch, because of the uneven surface it is on. that and tha action of the bit raising in the horses mouth causes constriction and pressure. It is not just the fact it is designed to keep the mouth shut- the drop is also- its where it fits to do the job that causes the problem.
I think the drop-when fitted correctly - is better because it allows the bit movement in the horses mouth without it being restricted by the leather against the cheeks.
Given the shape of the horses skull I dont think the drop is the ultimate ideal solution but for me it is the best available at the moment.
Hi Racaille- yes I believe its called a german noseband and fits as described- no I dont think you are arguementative, I wouldnt accept a concept until i fully understood it/ researched it and it is as the result of looking into this and watching a demo by william micklem that I have come to this conclusion.
In respect of martingales- I believe you are correct- horses throw their heads about usually because of pain or bad riding or both, and it is a disobedience to be avoided. But what of a horse, possibly unschooled or young that simply does not know or has developed the habit because of a problem rider. If everyone avoided it, it would end up as meat.
Yet by using a harbridge then it could be re-schooled safely and the action would quickly teach the horse what was wanted. Rather like stopping a horse bucking or rearing. If we avoided all horses with problems there would be too few for us all to ride!
Or what of a horse that through the sheer excitement of jumping became too exuberant for the rider, the running martingale is useful then. I dont think running martingales cause harm when fitted correctly, but some people use them unecessarily and like anything, if its there its should be there for a purpose and that essentially is to stop the rider getting injured.
I hope that explains my point better but if not then fire away.......!
brig
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Post by brigadier on May 13, 2008 21:00:18 GMT
Hi Jangles-
yes I can do that, looked on ride away and they dont do them!!!
I think Shires will so will probably look- wasnt sure of the size or that it would work and after just spending £20 on a girth that rubs, and £20 on a summer sheet that rubs and about to spend £600 on vet treatment I wanted the cheapest possible option and to make sure it wasnt going to end up in my tack box!!
cheers
Brig
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Post by zara on May 14, 2008 5:28:07 GMT
I would just like to reply to Racaille, I readily accept that a horse that throws his head about could well be in pain or just being disobedient.
I'd prefer anyone on here that doesn't know me to know that AJ is definitely not in any pain or discomfort (back and teeth checked regularly) and since I changed to a Myler bit we have very little in the way of "bit avoidance". He is also very well schooled and generally well behaved however he is an arab and can get excitable, strong and exuberant and I just find that the martingale gives a little more control at these times. The control may well be in my head rather than being real but the martingale does no harm as it does not restrict his head carriage unless it gets too high.
I hate to see horses weighted down in all manner of trendy gadgets and ironmongery but sometimes we all need a little extra help Z
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Post by maximum on May 16, 2008 9:10:14 GMT
sorry brig just got back from 4 day course.
I had to buy 2 as was only ones with f/s but its at the post office so will collect later but I think they are both brown. will let you know once I have picked them up.
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Post by racaille on May 16, 2008 9:46:44 GMT
Hi Zara, please please don't think I am being critical of you or anyone else. I am just, as Brig says, trying to understand things. It's clear to me that there are quite a lot of differences between the way things are done down here and the way they are in the UK or maybe even northern France (I just don't know which is why I ask all these dumb questions! ;D)
I haven't been riding all my life, came to it late, so there are things that you lot all know and I don't.
I am trying to put into practise a lot of what I learn on this forum, although it is often quite difficult as some of the things I can accept fly in the face of what my trainers want me to do. Draw reins are an example. I can now understand why they are horrid. However my trainer gets furious if she catches me schooling without them. They are totally accepted here and since her own trainer is Saumur-trained, if I want to take on the French equestrian establishment I need to have as many facts at my fingertips as possible! ;D
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Post by brigadier on May 16, 2008 10:06:06 GMT
sorry brig just got back from 4 day course. I had to buy 2 as was only ones with f/s but its at the post office so will collect later but I think they are both brown. will let you know once I have picked them up. Hi Maxie no problem- will prob get one from Shires. brix x |
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Post by duckles on May 16, 2008 17:17:47 GMT
A little off the point but Willaim Micklam came to the riding scohool i used to be at about 7/8 yrs ago. He gave some lessons and everyone was told to change to drop nosebands. I can't remember what difference it made. After reading your success with Basil, I feel like changing to a drop myself but I don't really think that is my problem. Agree fully about a running martingale, can't see it doing any harm although don't use one myself as fortunate enough not to need one (at the moment, anything can happen!). ANd Zara, I agree with you about flashes, they always come with bridles and i've loads moulding away - i suppose they could be used as garter straps but never use them either!
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Post by brigadier on May 17, 2008 15:48:22 GMT
Reiner Klimke was the first person I remember who advocated drop nosebands with a simple hollow mouth snaffle- I didnt understand why when I first read it years ago but I do now. I fancy one of the Micklem multi bridles but cant justify the cost at the moment- waiting for a mega urge to splurge!
brig
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so will split with you should a similar auction occur!
for so much hard work we thank ye!!
