Willow

[ceej]

bless him he has been getting stiffer and stiffer over last few months. It now takes me a fair while to get him out to the field and he looks like its painful. So its looking like he has arthritis (no wonder at his age) - my farrier says its in his knees. He struggled to go for our little walk up the road yesterday too.

Is there any real point me getting the vet out - surely they will prescribe bute? I have ordered devils claw root as I have rd some really good reports about how that helps (as it reduces inflammation as well as being painkiller) but is most effective if infused so Ill do that. I am certain he will be much better in the summer anyway. i worry for him next winter though. Obviously things like that don't get better. My question is whether a life on bute is really worth it? The other horse at the yard is but he is still in pain really. I don't want to wait until the life has gone out of his eyes before I do right by him...I always said he would go (if possible) at the end of a summer when life was good rather than at the end of a long winter when he is miserable. Trouble is of course you cant make that decision when they are looking well at the end of the summer! maybe I am thinking about this too soon? I dunno I just want to do right by him - I hate seeing him uncomfortable - maybe I could try devils claw now for the summer, and get him on bute next winter and then consider the end at the end of summer 2010?

I am weird planning this I know...its important to me to get it right though - I will not wait until its too late and he has forgotten what happy life was about. God my tears are out now. hes so special I will never cope.

[kitcat]

Ah Ceej, big hugs hun. I am sure you will know when the time is right and I suppose that if you have to ask then that time hasn't quite arrived. I can't see you letting things go so far that he has lost all quality of life.

There is a thread about arthritis on the HHO forum (don't shoot me please) at the moment with various treatments/suppliments recommended including Cortaflex and Cortavet (?) and also adding oil and cider vinegar to feed. There is also an alternative to devils claw which I seem to remember is easier on the stomach, can't think what it's called so I'll toddle off and have a look in a minute. It seems that different things work for different horses/ponies depending on the situation. I'm sure other people on here have far more advice for you based on their own experiences.

[Becca]

Oh sweetie! giant hugs!

Right, I dont think you are weird planning i think you are incredibly brave and it shows how much you love him! How did he manage this winter. I know you said he is stiff but how long does it take him to loosen if he does? I would try him on the devils claw for the summer, well start it as early as you can so if we get a little cold snap you can see if it does anything. The you juat have to see how he copes hun, if you had said omg he was in agony this winter i would have said maybe this year was his time but from what you said with a little help from the dc he could completely change.

Sorry not much help i know but remember we are all here behind you chicken xx

[kitcat]

Quote ''Boswellia is a herb that is good for arthritic cases. Its a natural anti-inflammatory and pain reliever. Safer long term than devils claw and bute as kinder to the stomach.''

[jane]

Aw Ceej

I am all tearful for you, and I know exactly how you feel having been there with Rockefeller.

I would certainly try the devils claw, I would also try a really good glucosamine supplement knowing how well Rocker did on that, used to use Newmarket Joint Supplement.... just glucosamine.

In some ways it is worth planning but do not think too much about this as I feel with hindsite day to day is a more realistic and positive outlook. It is better to plan shorter term than the longer.

The bute is a difficult one, I think it is a good thing in small doses, because it is a good pain killer but it merely masks the real problem and as you know can hide new injuries such as should they step on a nail. Maybe when he is really stiff give him a sachet and see how he is next day, if still bad try another but I remeber with Rocker the glucosamine did actually do wonders. At one point we were told that I'd be lucky to have him for 12 months but using the glucosamine I was riding him for many many yers longer (about 10).

The spring is coming and we all feel better and he should too, see how he goes through the spring and into the summer.

You will cope, you are a caring, loving owner and believe me Willow knows this too, you will do whats right and you will know when the time is right too. Don't beat yourself up over this...... it is very difficult I know, but whatever happens you will always do your best for him.

Big Hugs and a Karma
jane
x

[ceej]

Thanks guys...

Kitkat, Im registered on HHO too - can you give me the link (I can never find threads on there)!

Becca..he was stiff kind of on and off but now its all the time - he doesnt really losen up. It is worse when he is in so he has been out mostly but it doesnt matter what time of day I go up to feed he is stiff to come in. I wouldnt say he was in agony, more like and old man hobbling with a stick going, 'oooh, ahhh my aching bones'. I thought his feet were sore after the hard ground (as it came on worse then really) but farrier said not feet, knees - and he is always right that bloke. He has been tottery when walking on off camber for most of the winter but its only since the cold snap that he has been like this - I thought once it warmed up he would improve but he was quite bad last night..

Re cortaflex and glucosamine. I have read that its effects are limited on older animals. My dog (age 3) is on it as he has elbow displacia and it has worked wonders for him, and I hear for horses/dogs who have fundamental problem in joints wher arthritis is secondary (so my dogs problem is cartilage mice (bits coming off) and the glucosamine and chondratine combat that problem and therefore no arthritis/inflammation. When older however, the joints are rhumatic due to age and wearing down..glucosamine I understand has linited effects on this - the best way to assist is to reduce the inflammation caused (address the symptoms not the cause, as the cause is age). Might be wrong mind and would certainly try it.

I may have gone into melt down a little quickly! I should try some stuff and see how he goes. Its only because I want him to go when he is the happy boy he is now (and selfishly I guess thats how I want to remember him). In my heart I know he will tell me when its time, and when it does, at least I know the last years of his life were happy and pampered with not a cross word between us!

The DC is on the way so Ill give that a go first. If absolutely no improvement in say a month, Ill get the vet out and see if he thinks glucosamine would help.

Thanks loads you lot

[kitcat]

OK, lets see if technophobe me can post a link...

www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/4094559/an/0/page/1#4094559

[ceej]

bril thanks...theres loads of info on there - you are right, seems that often its trial and error- one thing works with one and not another...

[rebanna]

have you tryed magnetic boot's? they realy work for roo i got mine off ebay.

[ceej]

do they do them for knees? will have a look

have found these..

cgi.ebay.co.uk/Magnetic-Therapy-Equine-Tendon-Knee-Hock-Boots-FREE_W0QQitemZ270348282138QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Horse_Wear_Equipment?hash=item270348282138&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1229|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318

cheaper than I expected. How do they work? How long can you leave them on for?

[Becca]

Usually you just put them on in the stable, either over night or something but yours stay out dont they? Same problem for me i wanted to get hock ones for bern

[ceej]

yes, i take it they cant be worn when turned out in the day then?

[fleabitten]

Ceej - ....When we had Connie we fought to make her better - we tried everything. But the last time was when we could do nothing for her in the world except put her to sleep. To get to my point, I think you should fight to help Willow until there is nothing else you can do for her.

Big Hugs X

[ceej]

for as long as he isnt in pain (ie I need to find a way to take the pain away) and he still has a life to lead...Im so glad I got him back though. God knows where he would be now otherwise. 3 years he has been back with me - when I found him and brought him home I knew I would have to face it one day.

I will try everything I can but when something is only going to get worse and worse there must be a point? degenerative problems are almost worse that way...

[racaille]

Big hugs Ceej, it's a terrible thing to have to face. I think the only way to tackle the dilemma of 'quality of life' is to take it day by day. I'm sorry that sounds rather trite but I honestly think that one day you will just know.

[haffyfan]

Cortaflex does wonders for our arthritic dog and she also now has regular Cortrophen vet (sp) injections too.....not 100% sure what these actually are...vet has explained but I'm not very medicial minded...but they really work for her but not sure if it's something just for dogs or not?

I think your very brave to think about this but am sure you will make the right decision by Willow as and when the time is right. My friend had her old mare PTS towards the end of last year as she felt she couldn't make another winter and although the hardest thing she'd ever had to do I feel she does feel she did make the right decision in the end as had been considering it long and hard for many months and she had been on regular danilon (sp) for a few years I believe.

[haffyfan]

Forgot to say personally at his advanced age i wouldn't worry too much about the affects of being on regular Bute. Although the cortrophen is fairly safe Jadey has previously ben on daily Rimadyl (sp)and metacam (sp..sorry!) and still occasionally has metacam if really suffering ever just to help ease the pain (usually if she has run around the previous day like a loony after squiggles!)....we are of the opinion (shared by our wonderful vets) that giving her a good quality of pain free life, even if the drugs may shorten it somewhat/cause later problems, is far preferable over a longer but pained existance.

[ceej]

yeah Im not too worried about it shortening his life - not at his age! Devils calw arrived toay though and I have just bought some magnetic boots on ebay so we'll see how he goes with that for a min...seemed a bit better yesterday anyway...but now comes another cold spelll...

[rebanna]

sorry i forgot i posted in here you start at 30 min's then go up, i did it 10 min's a day i think you can leave them on up to 12 hours

[duckles]

That's a tough one Ceej- hope she has loads more happy years ahead. I have heard great reports of Devils Claw and magnetic boots so I hope Willow finds them good- I would think spring weather will work wonders as well.

[jane]

I think for arthritis the worse thing is to keep him in, being out will keep him moving. It is the same for us arthritic people the more we exercise the better.

I had magnetic boots for Rockefeller and left them on whilst he was out for however long it was meant to be but have to say he was as lame as ever with them for a few months. I sent those back and then tried the glucosamine as the vet suggested and that really helped old Rock, he must have been about 29 then. He lived on the glucosamine all his life after and was 40 when he died, and I can honestly say the arthritis seemed stabilise and he never went lame like that first time again.

[jack]

oh ceej how did i miss this one i dont know what to say but i know and he knows you will do your best for him

[ceej]

Hmmm, I figured I woudl ignore the bit about the boots not being suitable for turnout (as is my way) and left them on willow when he was out in the field for half an hour while I mucked out...they slipped. I dotn think they woudl slip if they were over the fetlock (they are multi-use) but they do if I put them on the knee.

Now the problem is quite right as becca said, my boys stay out most of the time in summer and only come in nights (sometimes) in the winter. I would consider just putting the boots on in the winter at nights and bringing him in but that woudl be too much time on (max 12 hours) so they either have to stay on int he field or not use them..do I

a) use the cut off bits of my brilliant gel eze pad and stitch some onto the bandages to make them stay on (it sticks lie sh1t to a blanket) or

b) sell them and give up that idea..?

[Becca]

hmmm i like your blue peter idea problem you then have is if that doesnt work you can't sell them.

You can buy magnetic bands for people, i was tempted to buy a couple, attach them to each other and have bernie wear them like a bracelet just above his hock. now not sure if it would work, might do better over the knee but would need to be stretchy and easy to get off if it got caught

[Becca]

possible good ones?

www.magnetictherapy.co.uk/scp/BODY_WRAPS_%28Flexible%29/Flexible_SPORTS_Knee_Magnet_Support.html

www.magnetictherapy.co.uk/scp/BODY_WRAPS_%28Flexible%29/Flexible_Magnetic_Neck_Support.html