Sacroids- Yet Again!!!

[duckles]

As people may know JB had a saroid removed last year which took ages etc etc and shortly afterwards I discovered another one growing but it was really small and between that and all his back/pelvis troubles, I didn't do much about it. Firstly, my vet (who I really like otherwise) only will ring a sarcoid and then, when its off, apply Liverpool cream to the exposed skin and you have to put lime on as well. He has done this twice and each time, the thing never came off being ringed, it had to be removed after about 5 weeks of waiting (and pain for my poor horse). ANyway, I spoke to another vet and he said Liverpool cream was best but he didn't do it. So I did a bit of research on internet about xterra cream but it said not suitable for membranes (the growth is on his sheath) and then it started growing quite big and a lady told me I should bring him to a specific vet hospital which specialise in horses and which is meant to be really great for sarcoids and another person told me the same thing so I rang them up today and the vet was nice and I'm to bring JB up tomorrow BUT he said he doubted if he could use Liverpool cream on his sheath as it could be too painful
So I asked what are the other options and he said
a) leave it alone- I think my 'expressive' silence must have told him what I thought about a vet who would do nothing about a growth!!
b) remove under anestethic
ANyway he will have a look tomorrow.
So I am kind of worried- I was prepared (although dreading) the stay in hospital but I never thought the Liverpool cream may not be suitable.

[racaille]

Duckles, don't be too hasty - maybe the leave it alone approach is not so daft. We've got a lovely little horse at the club who developed a sarcoid in his front 'armpit' (for want of a better decription!) The vet (Mr D'Arcy ;D) was very reluctant to do anything about it for a long time as it didn't interfere with the horse in any way but was difficult to get at. Mr D'Arcy's thinking was that the best way to remove it was surgery but that that carried more risks than the sarcoid.
So the horse had it for years. Literally. At least the seven years I've known him. In this time it grew really big but still, though regularly checked, was not in the way.
Finally xterra cream arrived and the vet recommended it. It has been nothing short of a miracle (it was gross though as great eggs of fatty 'jelly' fell away). But Boris has had no pain with the treatment and has not been off work at all.
I know that xterra is not an option for the sheath. But is JB's problem purely cosmetic or will the sarcoid interfere with his functions? After all he's been through, I'd tend to try to avoid any more interventions.
Obviously, you know him best and will make the best decision for him. Just thought I'd tell you Boris's little story .... ;D

[duckles]

Thanks Racaille- actually good to hear that. I suppose i have always been told that sarcoids are dangerous and should be got rid of immediately but obviously not in Boris's case. You are right - I am a total panicky person. Hopefully Milo (or is it Nico?? He is not Irish anyway) will inspire me with the confidence of Mr D'arcy!!!

[racaille]

I am totally sure you are not a panicky person at all Duckles!!!! ;D

[jane]

Hi Duckles

I agree with Racaille. I knew a pony years ago who lived the fifteen years I knew him with a large sarcoid on his face and a friends little pony now, has one right next to his eye, which they were advised to leave well alone.

Take care and Best Wishes

[zara]

Hi Duckles, i've replied on this subject before as my horse had had a sarcoid before I bought him. He has a scar on his face where one was removed by cryosurgery very effectively (touches wood) almost 5 years ago. I e-mailed Prof Knottenbelt at L'pool Vet hospital for advice and he replied within days and reassured me but I'm sure he would advise you if you asked Zx

[duckles]

Thanks everyone ! Zara, I'm bringing him up today for the vet to take a photo to send to Prof Knottenbelt - its just the vet who thinks the liverpool cream won't work cus of the area. That was so nice of Prof Knottenbelt to email you back! Jane and Racaille, thank you for your encouraging tales- but I am a bit panicky because this is his third one and its gettting quite big and a friend of mine had to have her horse put down because of loosing the battle with sarcoids. So I accept that I probably do overreact! ANyway I will let you know how I get on. Thanks for the support

[Becca]

Bern has sarcoids on his sheath, the biggest one got to about just under golf ball size at one point, i used camrosa on it and it burst and got a slight infection! All the ones i have left have been fine, got to a certain size then just shrunk back again, then pop back to say hi then gone again. Depending on what type it is I would definately say leave it. If it isn't getting in the way or hurting him why cause pain by removing it?
Plus a horse with sarcoids will always have them, even if you got rid again another one would pop up somewhere. Like i said unless it is ulcerated or hurting him in some way just keep any eye on it
oh and dont panic

[brigadier]

Re Basil's-I was advised to remove it which was done using liverpool cream (v expensive) but on sending pictures of it now have been advised to leave alone although it has changed slightly. Trouble is now if it starts growing again I will not be covered on insurance. Its such a dilemma but I do know I absolutely would not have the lime treatment you have described before Duckles. But the important thing to remember is to protect from flys as soon as the weather warms up as its believed its the flies feeding near the infected area and then moving to an non infected area and feeding which spread it! Yuck! Hope your Mr D'Arcy is helpful Duckles!

[Becca]

ooo thats a name i haven't heard in a while!! hmmm ....

[duckles]

Well he wasn't Mr D'arcy but actually he was quite nice lol (Italian)- he seemed to know his stuff and was very pleasant to me even though I turned up about half an hour late! (Combination of icey roads and winter sun in my eyes so I missed the turn er twice!- I was really embarrassed by being late-)
I thought JB had 2 (one of which had got big) but he found 3 and said one was a 'nest' of them. Pretty gross! SO he said Liverpool cream would be no use and he didn't bother taking the photo - he said he would remove them there and then! I was a bit taken back and he said he was surprised as well but because of where they were he could do it with heavy sedation and 3 locals. So he did that and a whole load of students came in to watch. ANd they all talked about Prof Knottenbelt. ANd all the different theories about sarcoids. And I kind of gather no one knows that much about them. THe vet said they were cancerous but not like human cancer and not sure if virus based or not. He said the cream works best on the flat type sarcoid - which was like Basil's. Brig- has it regrown?? I am so sorry to hear that- It is really disappointing if it has come back after the cream- what is the next plan? The vet did say to me that those types are more difficult as so hard to remove other than with the cream. I wonder why they are saying not to use it this time? this must be fruastrating and worrying for you.
I know some horses have sarcoids with no apparant problems (like Bosis and Bernie and Jane's pony) but I can't say I like them. The vet said to me that they would possibly grow back but nothing I can do about it.

He then asked me about vaccinations (which are due this month) and said he would do them as well - which I thought very thoughtful and nice (and money saving)
SO I am still a bit gobsmacked and its all done and over with. He's on bute but I can ride him soon. NO horrible lime treatment and waiting months for ringing.
And the journey back up and down the steep hills on the icey roads didnt' seems so bad - well at least I knew where I was going.
One really nice thing was that when I was bring JB into the treatment room with all the machinary and people , he gave me this look like 'Is this ok?' and I reassured him and he stayed really quiet and calm. I was so touched that he trusted me to this extent (hope I haven't gone and ruined it now!!)

Thanks everyone for their help and support

[racaille]

It sounds like a totally satisfactory day out! Like the sounds of the vet (I'm a sucker for an accent ) but he sounds a nice thoughtful type. And well done JB for being such a star!!!!

[brigadier]

So pleased it all went well and no aftercare (other than a few days to get over the cuts) I bet you are so relieved! Well done JB too, thats what I like with horses- the point where you get a bond and they trust you totally and would follow you anywhere.

re Basil- hhis hasnt re- grown but there is a bit of a ring around the area where it was, as though its spread but the center bit is a small scar- so its wait and see- Knottenbolt said a top up treatment may be required but to wait and see first- which is frustrating- its one of those situations where you are damned if you do and damned if you dont!

So very pleased for you duckles as youve been through the mill with it- lets hope its sorted!

[jane]

So pleased you got it sorted out. Things like this are always very worrying and most of us would be the same as you.

Give the boy a hug from me
jane

[duckles]

Racaille- hmm you must have a great time in France as you are a sucker for an accent!! - or perhaps french sounds normal now???
Jane- Thanks- he's getting loads of big hugs lately- but we'll be back schooling soon!!!
Brig- Sorry to hear that about Basil- I know you have it well in hand but I can imagine how worried you are- I hate the wait and see attitude! I know its sensible but I like to get things over with. Poor Basil- hope everything works out soon.