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Post by racaille on Dec 3, 2008 10:32:04 GMT
As you know, I am an absolute know-nothing about rugs as we never have bothered down here.
But ... the YO and I were doing the boxes this morning and having a real old grump. Apart from anything else, the price of chopped flax has gone up sooooo much that we were discussing ways to change the regime. In addition two of the horses (including Paco) aren't so happy inside and get engorged back legs.
So I was thinking, if some of you lot can leave horses out all the time, could we do it here? (Not the fragile GGs, just the rustics like Paco) If it was raining hard or very windy they could come in but are there any rugs with neck thingys that would keep them warm and dry WITHOUT field shelters? What if it rains, do they get cold wet dribbles down their necks?
Obviously, the rugs would need checking/removing every day but if there were fewer boxes to muck out, we'd have more time. Are there any disadvantages?
And then: what makes? Are some easier to handle? What about washing? In other words, I need to find out everything so I can report to the YO. Personally I think it is feasible for at least three of the horses. However this would create a slight knock-on problem as one advantage of bringing them in at night is that they get a rest from the big round bales (when we have them) as some of them (yes, you know who again ;D) would eat themselves sick if allowed access to the bales 24/7. The paddocks would also get more churned up, although rain is not normally too much of a problem (although it has been wet this autumn).
So all thoughts gratefully received!
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Post by Blonde Donkey on Dec 3, 2008 10:42:14 GMT
our gang are out all the time (including the tb) all have lightweight rugs on and have basic shelter(trees cos we're not allowed a shelter in our field) they are all fine
as long as they are dry and have plenty to eat i'm sure they will be quite happy
and best rugs - i love savvy's weatherbeeta lite and her masta middleweight(only ones she hasn't managed to kill and they have stayed waterproof)
no disadvantages really. savs, daints and the pest can't be in for various reasons and tbh they are happy playing out in the field.
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hollyvj
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Post by hollyvj on Dec 3, 2008 11:57:51 GMT
My name is Holly.... and I'm a rug addict!  I think i have a rug of nearly every shape and form, and I only have 1 horse.... But back to the subject... My mum has a Welsh A and a shettie that live out 24/7, they don't have a field shelter, but do have very good natural shelter in the field. The welshie wears a rain sheet to keep him dry. The shettie is naked. My mum did buy him a rain sheet, but he won't entertain it. Comet has a a masta one, and a cheapy one I picked up at YHL. The cheapy one is lasting much better the the masta one, and is also a better design. Can't remember the brand though. As for Oscar, he wears Amigos (by Horseware Ireland) when he's turned out. They're a bit more pricey but I love them! In the stable he wears a vaiety of different brands, as i'm not as bothered by the quality as long as their warm. Also I have a friend who lives in the Aveyron, and she's got a 20 year old anglo-arab and a 2 year old QHx which live out 24/7 with a field shelter. Don't know if she rugs or not. When we lived in France, we didn't rug our horses but they were hardy types and got brought in if the weather was bad. Sorry, bit long winded, but hope it has helped! x |
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Post by zara on Dec 3, 2008 13:07:46 GMT
Hi racaille, can't see why your boy couldn't live out. Personally I prefer Horseware rugs however they don't suit all horsey shapes particularly those with very wide chests. AJ's rugs are all Horseware and he has a Rambo Duo which although is very expensive, is fantastic - has a 100g lite wt outer and then detachable inners in different weights, the neck cover is detachable but fits so well I've never known it leak at the join even in the worst of weather. He also has some of their cheaper range ie Amigo and these too are excellent and the necks have excellent attachments. I hate Masta rugs and have found the couple I had didn't last long (worn his rambo daily in winter for 4 years and still good as new). Weatherbeeta's are good rugs but my friend's horses have them and I've noticed that in the wind they blow forward and leave a gap. Hope this helps Zx
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haffyfan
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Post by haffyfan on Dec 3, 2008 13:13:45 GMT
Would agree with zara on Masta's...avoid at all costs! I personally don't like Horsewear either but this is mainly because I was recommended by a tack shop to get Harry one...of course it didn't fit as they are not adjustable at chest and have very tight necks to boot (it didn't fit murph either and he's mainly TB). I love weatherbeetas...fit anything literally (I swop and cvhange my two's) and premier equines are alos wonderful and also a versitile fit.
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Post by racaille on Dec 3, 2008 13:31:25 GMT
This is great - which Weatherbeeta do you all recommend? I am confused by all the choice ...  |
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Post by ceej on Dec 3, 2008 13:48:55 GMT
certainly agree witht he weatherbeeta choice - I use a Landa (med weight) which is BRILLIANT and in its 5th year and also the Orican which is heavier. Also, you wont, IMO, find a better lightweight (no fill) than the amigo - they are cheap and do their job.
There is no reason why most horses cant stay out if rugged TBH. Its not going to be cheap to go from scratch though.
I am personally not a lover of full necks - I think they look uncomfortable and are unecessary really and most horses are ok if their trunk is warm.
You will need at least two turnouts per horse. I have three - a lightweight, (no fill) one for warm but showery days and spring and autumn, a medium (about 180gm - the Weatherbeeta Landa) for the day and heavier (about 250gm weatherbeeta Orican) for the night and v cold days - but mine are fairly hardy, so for a lighter type I woudl say a 250gm for the day and a 300-400gm for the night. The difficulty can be in drying them.
In very wet weather trickles can go in at the neck and through the joins (this is why it is false economy to buy too cheap) but this isnt a problem so long as you change them from day to night.
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Post by ceej on Dec 3, 2008 13:55:44 GMT
oooh blimey - I see the weatherbeeta have changed a fair bit - mine dont look like the new posh ones!! and they are quite expensive now. The old ones I have are very good though...
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Post by duckles on Dec 3, 2008 14:37:15 GMT
My horses live outside in all weather and its freezing here. You probably wouldn't need heavy duty rugs where you are, light or medium would probably do.
I know there are loads of rug addicts on this forum but everyone I know,including myself, are very easy going about rugs. Ie put rugs on when clipped, keep them on until April and then get them washed/repaired. No change of rug in stable. No change of rug when weather gets mild - rug just taken off, maybe during the day only for a few days and then altogether.(well I actually put a light weight one on JB becasue he does lose weight so easily but I'm considered soft).
No one I know rugs horses UNLESS they are clipped - that's including TBs expensive competition horses etc.
Are you going to leave out 24/7 or day only? In my experience horses prefer being out unless the weather is really vile, but watch out for changes in the horse;- a lazy horse can be harder to motivate if he's worked off all his restlessness wandering around 24/7- it doesn't affect a forward horse or a good worker. And anxious horse can become more relaxed.
I think Horseware Rugs are great, the rambos last for ever and never leak or sweat up. They had different weights for weather and cheaper versions (Rhino I think). I never have problems with fitting but I have heard complaints about them fitting the wider horse. THey have a fitting chart on their website.
I like neck covers, partly because they look so snug and partly because it keeps the mane free from mud (I know I have a barbie side to me sometimes!!) A load of people don't use them so I don't think they are necessary really. the rain doesn't go down the neck of a well fitted rug with no neck thing. If you go for neck thing, go for the detatchable one. More veristile.
There are also things called rain sheets which have no heat in them but keep a horse dry, some people put them on horses in cold weather so that the horse loses weight, cruel I think. (The horse's hairs are flattened by the sheet so he finds it hard to warm himself thus using more energy to stay warm)
I would imagine all your horses would be fine being left out- I think horses are a lot hardier than we think. and you don't even have to worry about over eating (feed intake is harder to monitor if horses out on rich grazing). We don't have a field shelter but there are trees. To be honest, I would like a field shelter and would like to bring horses in at night in winter but neither possible where i am. I don't think the horses mind in the least -
By the way, practically all the horses I know from friends, yards, etc etc are rugged as above.
I know everyone else here has rug wardrobes so I hope they won't be horrified by the above.
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Post by brigadier on Dec 3, 2008 21:45:15 GMT
Cant really add much to this Racaille- everyone has been really helpful. I dont like rugs with leg straps ( the kind that loop round the hind legs to secure- Ive seen some nasty rubs with these. Cross surcingles are better for the back and a filet stroing to keep the bum down. I love neck covers as I hate brushing mud off necks!!!
I like Shires rugs as they have good chest room. The modern outdoor rugs are ok for stable wear also. I think most horses are happier outdoors but there are exceptions! Cant see Paco being fussed if forage is available though!!!
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Post by racaille on Dec 4, 2008 11:10:41 GMT
Thanks everyone, this is really helpful.
The idea is to leave them out 24/7 (except in extreme weather) and I can't see us having time to change rugs from day-weight to night-weight. I think Paco, Nemo and Caline would be fine in a Weatherbeeta Landa but we might need something heavier for the ex-racer. On fact, it was because of her that we started thinking about this at all ... she is very fragile and gets 'tummy ache' a lot (can't even say it is colic) and the vet one day suggested we leave her out as she farts around in her box and has got cast before. The difference in her was amazing - just the fact she could wander around seemed to sort her out.
At the moment we are having a lot of wet weather, which is a pain, but usually it is dry but very cold - well into the minuses, have even had minus 15 before. And of course this brings the problem of frozen automatic drinkers, whereas at least inside they can get a drink. Oh there is so much to weigh up.
But I think I'll get Paco a rug (maybe second-hand to start with) and try him outside and see how it goes. Presumably he'll need to eat more to compensate for the heat loss .....
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Post by ceej on Dec 4, 2008 11:57:41 GMT
I reckon they would be fine in the same weights - i only really change the weights coz thats the rugs I have got - he has only been wearing his heavy at night over the last week because he is clipped and its been really cold, or when his other one is drying...you will need two if they are out 24/7 though.
I woudlnt increase food unless he starts to lose weight - you would be surprised how much warmer he is outside under a rug than inside unrugged! Just put your hand under it and they are always toastie!
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Post by racaille on Dec 4, 2008 13:14:53 GMT
Ah, thanks Ceej, good tip. Here's another thought: if they are all out unrugged during the day now, could we just rug them up for the night?
And Brig, what's a fillet string? How do the rugs anchor at the back? The only ones I've seen do seem to have straps that loop around the hind legs ..
sorry these questions just dumber and dumber ....
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Post by rainbow on Dec 4, 2008 14:10:06 GMT
a filet string goes from one side of the rug to other under the tale. It just a piece of string really  its ok, there are a lot of funny names for things sorry if my explantion is a bit hard to understand. |
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Post by ceej on Dec 4, 2008 16:43:52 GMT
Ah, thanks Ceej, good tip. Here's another thought: if they are all out unrugged during the day now, could we just rug them up for the night? sorry these questions just dumber and dumber .... dont see why not - only problem with that is if they get muddy and wet - its not good to put a thick rug over that as you can imagine it gets warm under there and wet - not good combo....but on a fine day yes...Harry is ruggless whenever the suns out! and no they dont get dumber and dumber! |
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Post by rainie on Dec 4, 2008 17:14:59 GMT
Racaille, there are a couple of lovely French people on Bank End Rescue who are in France, I have told them about this thread incase they may be able to help you.
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Post by duckles on Dec 4, 2008 17:17:40 GMT
Racaille, I don't change into different rugs at night- they have the same one day and night. You could leave him unrugged during the day I guess if fine enough but like Ceej says, you wouldn't want to put a rug on a wet horse. Like Brig, I don't like the straps around the hind legs, really fiddily- and I think, unnecessary.
Are you going to revolutionise the French way of keeping horses??
rugs are anchored by the surcinagles under the belly (i suppose) and by being well fitted.
Ceej- you've changed your avatar again! - and the signature- I really like it- I admired a different one (Oscar's head) a minute ago!
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Post by rainie on Dec 4, 2008 17:25:48 GMT
In my experience of rugging and horses living out, i find having two rugs the same a bonus, because if the weather is constantly raining for about 3 days, the rug on the horse may start to allow water through. Then i have a 2nd to put on whilst the 1st dries. However it is a pain to dry rugs.
The other thing i would say is after exercise if the same (damp on the outside, dry on the inside )rug is put back on, the body heat from the horse will dry the rug. This is something you may want to think about if you change from a lightweight in daytime to a middleweight at night time.
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Post by ceej on Dec 5, 2008 15:31:53 GMT
Ceej- you've changed your avatar again! - and the signature- I really like it- I admired a different one (Oscar's head) a minute ago! yes - I coudlnt decide! Thats Harrys head, not oscars - couldnt put his up til hes mine really!!! It doesnt look at all like harry mind! |
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Post by Becca on Dec 10, 2008 16:42:27 GMT
Sorry if i repeat i haven't read all the posts but ..... a few years ago bern lived out 24/7, wind rain snow mud the lot, all un rugged! He would sweat if i bought him onto the yard to groom him as he had built up such a thick coat (you could lose you hand in, sure i have put the pic on before of winter bernie) to deal with the wind. they are a lot tougher than we give them credit for. Saying that, if he has been living in then i would say yes he will need a rug. Ideally you have two of each weight incase one gets soaked through but i don't know many people that have. Love weatherbeeta's, think i saw someone say they fit anything. well bernie is built lke a brick poop house and they fit him, they are even deep enough which is the main problem for wide ponios. Hay wise, yes they may stuff themselves to start with but they will soon realise that "oh hang on i'm saying here nad it's not going to run out". Bernie is much happier and relaxed living out, much more natural for a horse. non mucking out - if they are living out, poo picking is a good idea, esp if it isn't a massive field, they tend to not eat where they poop (sensible i think, i wouldn't eat on the toilet!) so the more often the field is cleared the more grazing choice they have. Obviously checking fenceline and poisonous plants erm so it seems a lot but i dont mind poo picking cos bernie follows me round for company (watch the barrow tho, bern likes to push them over!) Erm hope that helps  |
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Post by racaille on Dec 10, 2008 17:37:16 GMT
Thanks Becca - and everyone else for all the good advice. People down here just haven't got the experience. It seems that Weatherbeetas are near the top of everyone's list so that's the road I'll go down. I don't need to worry about poo-picking!!! We don't have fields like you do, as we have no grass. The neddies are in paddocks that are dust most of the time (but quagmires in all this horrid rain  ). Usually the poo disintegrates into dust within days but even so the paddocks are skimmed by tractor regularly. I have noticed that Paco will wander away from the bale (it is luzerne+hay, so we do have to be careful) to do a poo, but thought he did that just because he is a nice tidy boy LOL ;D So far there is no sign of him stopping eating but the weather has been so uncharacteristically appalling that he's coming in at night anyway. |
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Post by spotti on Dec 10, 2008 21:51:01 GMT
Don't go with Amigos!! They're pants!!! They leak even with the slightest bit of drizzle AND they don't generally have shoulders (not good for my broad beastie) and generally they're just pants!!
Personally, although the more expensive ones probably last longer etc, I go with cheaper ones that fit well and then just replace them if they break...Faith doesn't (normally) have hers on all that often anyway so they last quite well anyway.
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Post by Becca on Dec 11, 2008 14:44:08 GMT
i never buy expensive rugs although my friend swears by fals! Bernie will always find something to shred a rug on and i would rather replace a cheap rug annually than an expensive one! There is a fab guy on ebay, i have put then shop on here before. i got a med half neck for £45 and it is the best rug he has ever ever worn (havent used the £50 hw yet) and this is it's second season, which for bern is amazing!
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Post by racaille on Dec 11, 2008 17:43:12 GMT
Becca I would really love the link if you can still find it pretty please......
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for so much hard work we thank ye!!
its ok, there are a lot of funny names for things 
Always saddle your own horse
). Usually the poo disintegrates into dust within days but even so the paddocks are skimmed
