Strange tongue!!!!

[brigadier]

What are peoples opinions on this?

My horse (four years ex racehorse) is always playing with his tongue- its a habit he has got and when I bought him his handler remarked on it. He uses it to get treats etc in the yard and will gurn for anyone who stands outside his stable- its really amusing and not something that bothers me in the least.

Ridden he has a lovely soft mouth and he is just learning to accept a contact, and bend to the leg so Im really pleased with his progress- he is also quite calm and sensible for a TB which again is fab.........
but the other day out hacking after about forty mins he begins playing with his tongue, he didnt put it over the bit and everytime I tried to look wht he was doing he stopped it, so I had to rely on the shadow to see what he was doing. At first he would take my hand down and forward- which is good- and I will develop this with half halts etc but I didnt in this case because I wanted to see what he was doing, then he would drop behind the contact and stick his tongue out, then he would take the contact again and repeat it again, taking my hand down and forward and then messing with his tongue etc. This is not the nice mouthing that I would like, and is probably a lead up to him evading the contact or other problems.

I do not want to clamp his mouth shut tight as he is too nice in the mouth for that and Im half tempted to try one of the Micklem multi bridles that offer a semi dropped noseband but they are really pricey (£100)

His teeth have just been done and the dentist Paul L'Anson is arguably the best in the north- he said he has a really nice mouth with no problems and Ive had his wolf teeth removed.

His bit is a loose ring hollow mouth french link and he shows no evasion to this at all. I really think he is just playing but I dont want it to develop into anything else so opinions would be good to help me decide.

The other thing is I have been doing really steady hacking to re-train him and I wonder if he is bored and wants some excitement. Afterall all he has done in his life is warm up and gallop- so again some opinions on this would be helpful. Ive just joined a riding club so his work is about to change so this may rectify itself and I may be panicking too early.

thanks in anticipation

brig

[zara]

HI Brig, I haven't got any amzing words of wisdom other than my ex-racer (sold him on now) did a very similar thing and was constantly putting his tongue out, playing with it etc. I know where you are coming from with not wanting to put a flash on him, I saw Charlie the other week and his new owner has done. i'm not sure it's a boredom thing tho'. Sorry I can't be of much help Zx

[brigadier]

Thanks at least he isnt the only one!
brig

[maximum]

Max does this too! normally when we are schooling and it does seem to be when he has to concentrate that he does it. all I can see out of the corner of my eye is this huge pink thing flopping about!

I have found that once he has the hang of whatever we are working on and it is not so much work he stops doing it and it is not often enough to worry me. Although it is an evasion I have just ignored it, kept the hand light and worked on. I did find that flexing him left and right and getting his attention helped, it is almost like he does it and goes into a trance and concentrates on the tongue rather than the movement so giving him something else to work on seems to do the trick. hard hill work seems enough of a distraction if we are hacking out!!

[midori]

Sounds like he is daydreaming a bit, I think you need to keep him up to the bit more. He's probably playing when he's not really concentrating.

Cheers, midori

[brigadier]

So whether he is a bit bored or whether he is concentrating I think the answer is to do something different.
thanks guys at least it doesnt seem its the beginnings of some horrendous evasion!!!
brig

[ceej]

Could you maybe try him in a mouthing bit once (with the bits for them to play with) in a while to remind him that he can play with the bit rather than evade it and help put his tongue to use? Not unless that may make him generally fiddle around with his tongue more? hhmmm, migt have talked myself out of that one already...

It sounds like boredom (nice active mind) or maybe its a nervous thing? Harry rolls his tongue when he is stressed or impatient (like waiting for tea)

[duckles]

I'm sorry Brigadier, i don't really know. Seems it is a habit he has acquired- when does he do it most often(not ridden), for attention, when bored or stressed, when relaxed? Would it be the same triggers that cause him to do it riding or is it just a habit? I suppose if just a habit, a drop noseband could help. (I think that is all the Micklen bridle has other than you can use it as headcoller but i may be wrong) Or a mouthing bit as ceej suggests. He's still pretty young so it could be a playful thing too. Keep us imformed

[brigadier]

Thanks for your ideas- not ridden he does it for attention to get attention, when tied up and nosing his rope (unless haylage is there)- I dont think its a stress thing at all as he is too laid back for that. I lunged him last night then rode him for about twenty- just doing circles and bends and he didnt do it once- he's a real trier as he finds the right rein really difficult but really wants to get it right. He didnt do anything at all and on the lunge he just mouths the bit lovely-occasionally dropping his tongue but more in a mouthing way then a lip smacking way.
Im beginning to think he does daydream and might need more variety sooner than I planned as he is intelligent and I may be boring him(wouldnt be a first........!)
cheers Brig

[duckles]

He sounds almost like the ideal horse personalty: intelligent, tries hard and laid back.

[brigadier]

Hi Duckles
yes Im really pleased with him,
he does have a side to him, he's by Iron Mask and a lot of his can be tricky but Ive done him a bit different and been really patient. I was a fairly forceful rider when I was younger, not nasty but didnt stand for much messing- but age andd having a kiddie has mellowed me so Im more laid back and I think I prefer to ride like this and I like how its affecting my horse.
I was schooling him tonight and he gave me some lovely strides even though I was inconsistent in the rein (some old habits die hard!).

Anyhow time will tell.........
brig

[duckles]

It took me a years to realise that horses really appreciate quietness and patience. Not saying I'm great at either but I try! I think most horses are keen to please but are a bit nervy by nature so they blossom when they are given time and apprieciated and I find it makes riding so much more enjoyable too. Ok I sound a bit new agey, which I'm not. I do enjoy competition and I aspire to do things 'perfectly (note aspire- I don't get anywhere near it) so I guess I am ambitious but it doesn't matter to me now if its not this summer or if I don't get out competing this week etc- just a change in attitude. The other girls who have horses where I am (just 3 of them) go from one competition to another and I think they think I'm crazy . Anyway Brig- good luck with Basil, you bothare obviously very talented and he sounds lovely as well(i have a big weakness for tbs myself)

[brigadier]

Thanks Duckles- I think sometimes I sound new agey these days but Im not- just a bit wiser I hope. Wish I was like this twenty years ago as I think I ruined my first horse but nothing I can do about that now and he was obviously special to me as I use his name.
Dont know about the talent I just absorb information but I think I write better than I ride!!
Brig

[duckles]

Well you certainly write very well! I'm sure you didn't ruin your first horse - instead you should think that it is good thing that you have improved over the years! There are loads who have got worse or remained the same. I have to admit I often wish I had another go with my first horse as I did so much wrong through ignorance.

[maximum]

I think brig is my alter ego!!

I wish i had been much kinder years ago I didnt always put the horse first and now that I do I see that you can get the same results by kindness. not that I was overly cruel I was just hard and expected a lot both from myself and the horse.

[popsicle]

Totally agree, I think when i was younger I listened to so called experts who said you had to show the horse who was boss and as a child you assume the adult is right, but as you get older you have more empathy with the horse and realise that the "old school" style of riding was both cruel and unecessary and you get a lot futher with POSITIVE reinforcement

[aimee]

Oh yes I totally agree. Even now at the riding school I go to for college they tell you to smack the horse on the bum and to "get after him" if the horse is freaking out at something or whatever.

Not I just blatently ignore them, and give the horse his head and a few gentle clicks and they walk on soon enough. I think its worse for both horse and rider if you get yourself all wound up and shouting.

[brigadier]

I really think thats the way forward. Some horses do take the p*** but most are genuinely worried and to hit them when they are scared makes them associate that fear with the whip.

My whip reinforces my aids and then only when Im sure he is ignoring them and then its only a tap!