Teaching Manners

[suzii]

My boy has been alot better recently.

However...

I need tips and ideas about teaching him respect. He is a big horse and is just realising he is, and getting pushy.

I try to make him stand in his own space etc but it just doesn't seem to work!

I was wondering about natural horsemanship type methods

Any ideas?

[brigadier]

HI Suzii- know youve seen the other post but sometimes you have to be really really firm and often a good telling off with a growl will make a horse respect you, Is he ok to lead or does he pull you about then or is it just in the stable?
If you need a horse to back off make your body stand square on and look in the eye, whereas if you turn sideways on and dont look the horse will stay closer. Same applies if leading forward, if you turn and look at horse square on it naturally stops as you are challenging it. So never look directly at a horse when leading it unless it invades your space- then sqaure up and glare!
Teach him to move away from your hand when in the stable- best to tie up first then ask him to move over to one side then the other.
When asking for feet make sure his weight is evenly didtributed first- most people will tug to try and get a foot up but sometimes the horse would fall over if it picked it up!!! Watch a farrier pick up feet, he will ask the horse to move forwards slightly to get the best balance before asking for a leg.
Best not give treats just yet until your horse learns manners! (hard not to I know as I give them all the time- and its really bad and I should stop but I dont care!) If I think of anymore will post later.
brig

[jack]

the first thing i taught george was to go back and its helped with his manners i hope its the right thing to do

[brigadier]

Ive had a debate running for years about teaching horses to go backwards- was told you should never teach a young horse to rein back as it teaches them an evasion, but I think thats rubbish, horses teach themselves evasions and rein back is so useful for opening gates etc etc, so likewise on the ground- going backwards is the first thing we ask a horse to do that it naturally wouldnt do itself and in achieving it we are making that first breakthrough in the relationship between horse and handler and setting the precedent- so yes imo I believe its one of the first biggies to teach.

[joandlad]

A great book is Perfect Manners by Kelly Marks. Very easy to read and lots of exercises in the back designed to teach just the sort of thing you are after. Don't like giving merchandise recommendations on forums but "Manners" is another massive subject that you can't do justice with one post. This book pretty much changed my life with horses. I'd discovered 10 years before it was published that brute force and ignorance was getting me nowhere. I worked out ways to get my horse to do what I wanted that didn't involve force but I thought I was a lone voice in the wilderness until Kelly published Perfect Manners. I haven't looked back since.

[suzii]

Yes I've joined kelly marks' kids version of her Intelligent Horsemanship. I saw the book advertised - I might get it.

Sprite is fine when being led, he just hates standing still expecially when he knows something is about to happen (being ridden, fed etc)

He does his pawing the ground thing which is really annoying because the ohnly way of stopping him is to go into the stable and starts doing things - which means he's won doesn't it??

The other thing he does is putting his ears back when I feed him and he won't wait while I put his haynet up.

Oh yeah and the last thing is if he gets impatient he shoves me with his head, last time i jumped about 3 foot backwards!!

I tried the spot on the neck thing brig, it does work - he just needs to stay back, not walk foward immediately after i pushed him back!

[dannyboy]

Hi Suzii - I have the same problem with Danny, he knows he's the stronger out of us and plays me up something shocking !!

We will lift his feet, well if he wants to that is. He knows he has the upper hand with me, embarrasing really but I always have given in. He associates me with treats for definite - lovely carrots and apples and these are given no matter his mood - and he is sometimes quite unmannered. But I love him to bits and this is my problem, I could excuse him for anything.

As I don't ride Danny I don't need to have the same control but I do feel at a risk of him being completely disrespectful.

Should I be teaching Danny manners if I don't really think I'll ever get to ride him

Hope you get on well with your little monkey

[brigadier]

Always teach manners even if you dont ride- it just makes them nicer horses to be around- Suzii- your horse just sounds a character- the pushing head thing is just his way of telling you to get a move on! Pawing is naughty and a flat hand slap- not hard more noisey on his chest towards the breast area usually works as long as you say no (if he is doing it whilst being held) if he does it in his stable whilst you are in the yard I find a growl and a no usually work well but if it doesnt you may need to be firmer or use a water pistol on him.
the ears back when feeding is normal for some horses who have a stronger herd instinct- let him eat his feed in peace- give him it then walk away- you shouldnt interrupt feeding time! Haynet wise the hand in the chest will work- just be patient and keep at it- he will get the message!
brig

[suzii]

ok thanks.

Today I was picking his feet out and he was good. But the randomly he went to bite my behind!!! He has tried to nibble before, but never as bad as this - I really smacked him ( I hate smacking horses).

Any ideas as it is a bad habit and needs to stop quickly!!

[brigadier]

Mine nibbles and licks mine! He's never bitten though but I sometimes wonder if he would!
It maybe caused by someone keeping their polo mints in their back pocket etc. I think you did the correct thing- biting is unacceptable. Dont hit him on his head though, just a sharp slap, on his chest so that the noise is more of a deterrent! And tell him "No" really sharply.

[suzii]

Thing is, if I slap him then he stops doing whatever he's doing. Then just starts doing it again!

Honestly it's like having a little kid!!

[maximum]

consistancy suzii , just keep doing the same thing and eventually it will get through to him.

[suzii]

ok thanks. Didn't know if that would work or if I needed to do something else. Ok I'll keep going then?

[brigadier]

Yup- and its like having kids! Really! (Except I dont slap mine! well not hard anyhow!!! only joking!

[scattymare]

I agree I don't like hitting horses but if Sancy (dared) to ever bite or kick me on purpose she would get the slap of her life. Biting can be dangerous and they need to learn that it is not acceptable. If he is just being cheeky then thats different. But if he means it then a very firm NO and smack is in order. Sounds like he is testing the boundaries with you. Trust and relationship building will get you through a lot.

[suzii]

cool he's more or less stopped doing it. I think he realised I was gonna pick his feet up whatever he did! ;D One problem down 999,999,999,999,999,999 to go!

[spotti]

Ah, join the club Suzi!! Just join the club! If I had a pound for all the problems we've had over this past year then I'd be a very rich person (and that would be just over a year! Imagine how rich I'd be if I have Faith until she's really old?? - actually, thinking about it, I'll be the complete opposite of rich by the time we're over our 'problems'/'issues' because I have to spend that much on treatment/equipment that I'm now very very poor! But generally happy so its all worth it in the end).

Glad to see you and Sprite are getting on now

[racaille]

Totally with Brig on this one! Moving backwards is important - even if it's just so that you can get the horse to move back when you open the box door if it tries to rush out/crowd you. But of course, it's also essential for gates etc. Brig's technique of the fingers in the chest is a great one.
So glad to see people teaching horses manners, it drives me wild when I either have to deal with or meet unruly GGs.
And yes, I also give a good 'clack' for bad behaviour - the noise is the thing - when Paco bit me the other day he got a really good 'un. He's never done it before, and he certainly hasn't done it since!

[fimacg]

Brave is a mugger, he tries to mug me for treats whenever I am near. I have developed very sharp elbows, so that if he comes in to try to mug me he collides with my elbows, so he gets a shock and backs off. this also works when tieing up a haynet, if he is being rude, lift your elbow so that when he is invading you space he catches himself on a hard bony part of you, that doesn't hurt you or him is really not comfortable for him, it does make them respect your space a bit more.

[suzii]

you will be pleased to know that manners are coming I have been practicing stand and going back and walking on out to the feild and round the school before I ride.

He is getting good now and will walk next to me without shoving me or anything without me holding on (I know not a good idea in open space but ok in the school)>

He stands usually when I ask him, I don't have to pull him to a halt. And the picking up feet is nearly 100%

And yes I totally agree with the whole manners thing - theres one at our yard that is just horrible! His owner doesn't have much time for him and always gives him treats, he lunged at me the other day, I just try and keep my distance!!