Going bitless

[zara]

My friend's horse has developed melanomas in his mouth and certainly for now can't be ridden with a bit. I know very little about going bitless and wondered what advice you could give. What is the difference between an English hackamore a Dr Cook or a ?scrawbrigg Zx

[finefilly]

i tried the Dr Cook bridle on Dazzle, not because there was something wrong with his mouth but he is very strong and i was advised to try one to see if it helped. it didnt! he was too clever for that! he would stick his head down so you couldnt get any pressure off it and would tank off! there isnt much difference between dr Cook and hackamore and scrawbrig. they all put pressure on the poll and nose instead of the mouth. the hackamore might a better option to start off trying. the english hackamore is less severe than the german hackamore.

[zoon]

I love my german hackamore. its got a big fluffy sheepskin noeband and a soft elastic curb and I could go around with cotton for reins and Zoon goes really well. He throws his head about with an english hackamore and I didn't like the feel of it either.

[finefilly]

i was told that was more severe but obviously not. i asked someone when i was thinking about going bitless with Dazzle and they said that. i suposse any bitles bridle or bit is severe in the wrong hands. bitless just wasnt good for Dazzle but i may go that way with Emir

[haffyfan]

The Scrawbrig is just a strap that tightens around the muzzle Zara, i have one if your friend would like to try it? I stopped using it as I couldn't stop Murph diving for green stuff after the lami, although his brakes were never a problem. Maybe a stronger horse would be though. I ahve tried all manner of bitless bridles with mine and they both prefer the blairs pattern (english) hackamore despite it being classes as rather severe compared to the other types such as side pulls, dr cooks etc. I think it is all down to the rider and their hands to some extent.

Spotti uses a Dr Cooks so is best to ask about these as the one I tried was an aussie cross under (similiar idea) but murph didn't like it and Harry's head was too big...lol

[zoon]

The german hackamore is stronger than an english as the shanks are longer, but its design is completely different and I find you have more steering control in a german hackamore than an english. But like you said, any bit/hackamore is just as severe as the hands it is in. I find I need to pull Zoon around in his english hackamore, but he's fab in the german. On the other hand Haffy loves her english hackamores.

[spotti]

Like Haffy said, we use a Dr Cooks and love it! I've had no problems with steering or brakes and Faith seems to love it, so it can't be causing her any pain otherwise she wouldn't put it on all by herself (well, practically...all I do is hold it open and then fasten the noseband, she does the rest!)

I'd be more than happy to rabbit on about the bridle all day long, but if you don't want to have to listen to my drivel, then please feel free to ask questions and I'll try to be more helpful and to the point (well, I'll try!)

All I can say is going bitless was the best thing we've done so far. We've both improved loads and both enjoy riding much more now, but its up to your friend as to which bridle to try/use. I heard hackamores can be severe in the wrong hands (i.e. wobbly novicey hands like mine!) but Haffy's lot get on with them, so they must be good for something
I borrowed Haffy's scawbrig bridle before investing in my Dr Cooks, but Faith didn't respect it and just p*ssed about with me on the ground, so I didn't even attempt to get on her back! I tried it on a few occasions, but just couldn't get on with it, but we both took to the Dr Cooks one immediately!

Like I said, feel free to ask questions to stop me from drivelling on (although I appear to have done that already...sorry!)

[zara]

Thanks everyone for your advice, I will pass it on to Mickey's owner and then let you know how we got on Zx

[suzii]

I would love to go bitless as I don't like the idea of having a metal thing that you pull on -I know I wouldn't like it.

I would think it would be harder to bring them into an outline though. I know it's not about playing with their mouths but wouldn't you have to completely retrain them??

[spotti]

Not at all. They take to being bitless much easier than you'd think. I've had Faith's on a few horses now and each and every one of them has been better bitless - they all knew exactly what to do (because of seat and leg and voice aids) and I've suprised a few owners with just how well they've done! I've still got to convince a friend on mine that her horse won't take off and not stop/be stupid if she was ridden without a bit, but I'm still working on that...

Suzii, honestly, the transition is easy. Perhaps going bitless isn't for everyone, I can see that, but I'll bet you've got a better horse than you think. Try it, you'll be suprised!

[spotti]

Forgot to add...

Faith now 'asks' me to give her more rein to stretch down with by pushing her head forwards and down. She goes in a sort-of outline in trot after she's relaxed into it (although she's never been trained to go in an outline; has only recently come back into very light work; and we're both very green so we can only do very basic things like walk and trot) and seems much happier without a bit in her mouth.
Obviously we've not been doing anything difficult/advanced because we're both novices and are still learning, but from what we have done, I've found no reason why she wouldn't be able to do advanced stuff without a bit. Besides, doesn't an outline come from working through from behind, using their back end and back muscles to propel them forwards?? Surely a bit (or lack of a bit) wouldn't affect that??

[fleabitten]

I agree with that spotti 'Besides, doesn't an outline come from working through from behind, using their back end and back muscles to propel them forwards?? Surely a bit (or lack of a bit) wouldn't affect that?? ' I think people imagine that you need a bit to 'bend' the horses head to the vertical like a lever or something (at least thats how I see it) and with a hackamore you just think its like a headcollar or something to ride in as it has no bit and horses dont bend their heads in a headcollar sort of thing. If you understood all of that rambling!

its quite a difficult topic to understand (being in an outline) - I have never actually seen a horse riding in a bitless bridle in real life - just pictures. There is a riding school down south that teaches their riders in bitless bridles and all the horses are barefoot (they get an EP). here is the link for some interesting reading if you like! They use the Dr Cook.
www.castlehorses.ie/thenaturalway.php

[spotti]

Flea. I've seen that before! I think they had a video on youtube or something and people were leaving comments like "WTF? Why are teaching beginners to go bitless?" - well why not? Surely its kinder on the horse to have a novice slighlty squeezing his nose than it is to have them yanking on his mouth?! I think alot of predjudice againt bitless stems from 'traditional values' of 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it' - but how do you know it 'ain't broke' until you try something new??? What harm can it do really...teach your horse to be more responsive to your aids, even if you decide to go back to using a bit??? Now really, that's hardly a bad thing, is it?!

Like I've already said, maybe bitless isn't for everyone, but its worked wonders for us and could do for you too, all you have to do is give it a go. Try it, you might suprise yourself!

Oh and Flea, when Faith's better I'll get my sister to video us riding bitless...it's nothing exciting to watch because we're only learning, but you will see us going into corners, doing circles, and doing a fantastic (in my opinion) trot-halt transition just from my voice. If you could see her before (with a bit) and then after, you'd be amazed at the change.

[fleabitten]

Wow, I cant wait to see you two in action! I think I also read somewhere that some place teaches the beginners in headcollars so they dont pull the pony's mouth. Ive seen that in games in beginner lessons at my place, 123 red lights they walk for like a step and then someone yells red lights then you have to stop and they just yank - its awful. But then most of them arent old enough to understand - even if you do explain to them not to pull the ponys head off.

[spotti]

Well don't get too excited because it'll be nothing spectacular, but we'll try! Plus it will be my sister doing the video-ing and she seems to have a tendency to either chop my head off completely or be so far away that everything looks tiny...guess I could get my dad to do it, but then again he likes to film everything else and usually runs out of battery by the time we're ready to do soemthing interesting OR is busy looking the other way when something happens (like when we were just playing from the ground and Faith cantered and did a flying change all by herself. I was well impressed, but where was my dad looking??? At a random horse that was walking past...typical!). Hmmm....might just plonk the camera in a corner on the fence around the school and film myself - that could work!

And I think being taught bitless/in headcollars is a good way to start off because until you understand what you're hands are doing, you don't realise you're hurting the horse by yanking on its mouth.

[fleabitten]

Yeah - I have a video of me riding Princess in the field and dad kept yelling at me to start galloping! 'What are you doing??' 'Im warming up' oh ****, get on there and go for a gallop!'
He must have been really bored watching us walk and trot round!

[spotti]

Well you can't just hop on and gallop...that's not fair! I think if my dad does video us, I'll get him to come and find us about 20mins after I've started riding so all the 'boring' stuff is out of the way and we can start doing more interesting stuff (like Faith rearing because she's bored of doing circles and wants to go out for a hack or she wants her tea or something! But hey ho, rears are kind of exciting to watch!)