VIDEO ADDED Ouch! I'd forgotten how much the ground hurts...

[pboy]

On Sunday we had our much-anticipated xc lesson at Lyneham Heath (what an amazing facility, I'd highly recommend it - we had a great time even though some of it was still closed due to wet ground). Last Wednesday I had a sj lesson as prep and I asked Ali to get us going over some decent-sized fences so the xc ones would look less scary We did three fences on a curving related distance, and the first and third ended up at 90cm - Indio popped them as if they were nothing, even when we completely messed up the distances.

Sunday was stunning weather and four of us headed out on the course - me and Indio, Ali on her recently-retired 2* horse Morris (they're focusing on dressage these days), Esther on ex-racehorse Juice and Susy on her hot-headed 14.2 Appy x TB mare Spots. We warmed up over a log, which Indio and I had to do about 10 times as he was very sticky in the last stride. I was riding very defensively as a result and it took me a long time to get out of that habit.

We moved to the next field to play in some water, do some steps then Indio and I popped over a box brush and double-brush thingy. He started taking me into the fences and felt lovely, and I started to go with him a bit more. I have to say though that I never felt as secure over the fences as I know I can do, so I plan to go right back to basics and work on that. My lower leg looks ok so I wonder if I need shorter stirrups. I also definitely need to work on going from 'normal' to 'jump' position and back again - I feel that I have to keep Indio on the contact until the last moment to keep him straight, but I then struggle to go with him properly. Lots to work on!

We also had a play over a brush out of water, than over a hanging log on a mound to a very skinny skinny, which Indio popped beautifully. Then we all followed Ali over a trakehner before putting a little course together. Indio went beautifully around the course, although we did have to be careful as suddenly it got very busy and there were a lot of horses and supporters around (including, bizarrely, Jeremy Irons wandering around with the owner of Lyneham). After that I asked Ali if I should have a go at a larger hedge-type fence with a step down afterwards and she said 'go for it'. Well, it turned out to be a step too far (literally) as Indio jumped the fence, then hesitated and jinked right to avoid the step, resulting in me going out the side door! It's my first fall from a Spanish horse and it was pretty painful - the ground was firm there and I fell down part of the step No harm done but I am moving like an old man now!!

I got back on and popped a nice log a couple of times, then went down the step on its own a couple of times. Ali asked if I wanted to attempt the combination again but I wasn't feeling confident, so I asked her to jump on Indio and do it. He was a bit unsure at first but did it, then she took him over again and he flew through. Such a good boy!

Here are some photos - I also have a video (Ali wore my GoPro) which I'm editing so I'll share that later...and yes, it does include the fall!

Indio log.tiff (940.19 KB)

Indio hedge.tiff (251.08 KB)

Indio skinny.tiff (521.69 KB)

[brigadier]

Who says Spanish horses dont jump? He is making nice shapes over those. I wouldn't let your fall dent your confidence permanently. Confidence I find is a fairly fluid thing and it sounds like yours was a touch low to start with, and the fall was just one of those things- could have been worse- could have been a step into water!
Take heart from the pictures- he looks great, he is young and allowed a wobble and so are you for that matter.

[pboy]

There are definitely a lot of positives, Indio was fab and looking at the video again he was straight when landing too - previously he's always balanced by tilting his head to the left (his usual issue). He didn't really do anything wrong and if I was in better balance I'd have been able to keep him straight. He takes confidence from the rider so it's not at all surprising he ducked out.

I'm very inexperienced at xc so I just need to do some work on it. It's not put me off at all, though I may make use of my hip flask next time I'll do plenty of homework in the arena in the meantime to get more confident riding Indio on a forward stride and to get my seat more secure over bigger jumps. He definitely jumps bigger away from home and he likes to get in close, plus I'm tense so I really struggle to sit to him. Poor boy did get a couple of jabs in the mouth from me

[solomon]

He is a star. Confidence is the key. There are some brilliant training videos about by Pippa Funnell and Lucinda green. Pippa talks about keeping your horse straight by imagining you are in a tube. Very good advice. Indio is doing brilliantly.

[racaille]

Ouch. I feel for you. Seriously. I too am walking like an old man, still. Well done for hopping back on.

Indio looks lovely in the pix and so do you. My coach says she always prefers her riders not to fold too much in XC so she would be very pleased with you. You probably do need your stirrups a tad shorter?

Let's nail this Spanish horses don't jump thing, though, shall we?

All horses (more or less) can jump. At least a bit. But those that have a real ability for jumping tend to have sloping shoulders, with long shoulder blades which allow more extension - plus folding of the front legs - and lessen jarring on landing.

Horses with more upright shoulders have shorter muscle attachments and will generally not show great form jumping and may also suffer more impact damage. They are, however, better suited to sudden bursts of speed, such as is required in doma vaquera, cutting and roping. So Quarter Horses are generally more upright in the shoulder. As are, again generally speaking, Spanish horses, especially those bred for a high knee action.

So, as always, conformation is key.

[pboy]

Apr 26, 2016 16:27:46 GMT racaille said:

Ouch. I feel for you. Seriously. I too am walking like an old man, still. Well done for hopping back on.

Indio looks lovely in the pix and so do you. My coach says she always prefers her riders not to fold too much in XC so she would be very pleased with you. You probably do need your stirrups a tad shorter?

Let's nail this Spanish horses don't jump thing, though, shall we?

All horses (more or less) can jump. At least a bit. But those that have a real ability for jumping tend to have sloping shoulders, with long shoulder blades which allow more extension - plus folding of the front legs - and lessen jarring on landing.

Horses with more upright shoulders have shorter muscle attachments and will generally not show great form jumping and may also suffer more impact damage. They are, however, better suited to sudden bursts of speed, such as is required in doma vaquera, cutting and roping. So Quarter Horses are generally more upright in the shoulder. As are, again generally speaking, Spanish horses, especially those bred for a high knee action.

So, as always, conformation is key.

Thanks Rac! I've had 'don't overfold!' drilled into me as well. The shots were from my more confident jumps, there were others where I was well and truly left behind! I think you're right about the stirrups, in Hong Kong I used to have them very short as Classy had such a powerful back end so I think I'll try the same. Indio really lifts through the shoulder and has a lovely jump, I think learning to jump as a teenager on ponies and flat-jumping ex-NH TBs hasn't left me in good stead!

I was always taught that jumpers should have a more upright shoulder than you would want for dressage. I remembered reading an article that suggested hind-end conformation was key for jumping according to latest research, but I can't find it now, I'll continue to look. I did come across this blog, which is a bit old but has a fair few references, that says upright shoulders are better too. Very interesting! At our level I think temperament is key really. www.behindthebitblog.com/2008/06/dressage-versus-jumper-conformation.html?m=1

[pboy]

You've tapped into my geeky side now Rac! Oops.
Here's another interesting observation - you certainly don't see a lot of Spanish horses with big shoulders: eventingconnect.today/2015/10/08/what-conformation-feature-do-four-star-horses-have-in-common/

[haffyfan]

Ouch but good on you for getting back on and carrying on.
Indio is amazing, the perfect all rounder it seems, i've said it before but he definitely sees him self as an eventer rather than just a dressage horse. He makes a lovely shape over the fences and looks to be really enjoying himself, infact you both look fab!

[pboy]

Apr 26, 2016 17:52:01 GMT haffyfan said:

Ouch but good on you for getting back on and carrying on.
Indio is amazing, the perfect all rounder it seems, i've said it before but he definitely sees him self as an eventer rather than just a dressage horse. He makes a lovely shape over the fences and looks to be really enjoying himself, infact you both look fab!

Unfortunately (or fortunately given the fall!) I didn't have my phone on me as I really should have taken a photo of him before we started. He looked like a proper event horse tied up to the lorry with his jump saddle, breastgirth and boots! I doubt anyone there guessed he's Spanish . We'll definitely do an event one day...he's only 9 this year so plenty of time for us to practice ;-)

[pboy]

Here's the video (it's got all of us in it...the fall is at about 8.10 but there are some nice jumps in there too ):

[racaille]

Ouch! but great vid! Some of those jumps were very scary!

The articles were interesting - and contradictory! I googled a bit myself and came up with every possible variation on shoulder+jumping. Just goes to show that the received wisdom down here is not necessarily the whole picture. But why aren't there many - any? - top flight Iberique jumpers? (I think a Whitacker had a Lusi but apart from that?) Is it because people assume they are more dressage oriented? The Spanish SJ team have qualified for the Olympics for the first time in 16 years but they seem to favour warmbloods rather than baroque types.

I absolutely agree with you that at 'fun' level, temperament is everything. You should have seen our team member's Merens flying round the XC - and he is heavy!

[haffyfan]

Yep ouchie, looked a nasty fall with the step and Indio not being able to stop himself towing you along for a stride or two after it. Super video though, bless him doesn't he try so hard to please, he is a seriously lovely horse.

He does look quite sports horse looking, certainly jumps like one! I like the little appy too, he looks fun (but opinionated!)

[pboy]

There was one - Novilheiro (or however you spell it!). He was a regular on the GB nations cup team with John Whitaker, Lusitano but mainly old Spanish bloodlines (as the studbooks were only split in the 1960s I think). Regardless, I don't think most people think of Iberians when they are looking for a jumper! There seem to be quite a few jumping in the UK these days though and there are jumping classes at the PRE world championships in Seville each year (SICAB). One of the ladies in the GBPRE Facebook group took her horse there and put up a video of them training - the horse is only 15.2 but pops over a 5'4" fence. I can't find the video but the horse is for sale now and there are some photos here:

These days the top flight show jumpers seem to be all very much purpose bred, you don't even see TBs or the old TBx anymore. I used to have an old book by Harvey Smith that talked through the top show jumpers of the 1960s and 1970s and the were a real mix of heavy horse x, native x, TBs and of course Stroller the pony. Breeding is such an industry these days, I doubt any of the top yards even consider a horse that isn't from pure SJ lines

Did you get any pics or vids of the Merens when your daughter rode him? I'd love to see it!