Flock v cair

[brigadier]

Read some research recently that has made me think differently about cair saddles. Always thought that pumped air on the horses back can't be that comfortable for the horse. Rather like being pressed with a rugby ball! But it turns out that the horse is more comfortable with cair as opposed to flock, but the rider is better with flock and has better feel.
So with this knowledge and assuming the research is sound (Dundee Uni). Which would you choose and why?

[haffyfan]

I've ridden on a cair saddle a couple of times, if i'm honest i don't recall it feeling any different to normal (and it was years ago before Murph was backed so i was riding treed at the time). However shortly after buying it the cair was actually replaced by flocking at the back persons guidance as it was causing the mare issues. She certainly had no more issues thereafter ridden in same saddle. I have heard of lots of people who have had them swapped over so is it the saddlers/specialists don't like it or is it troublesome?

You would think cair would be more comfortable as flock can settle and go lumpy whereas the cair should be generally smoother and you can gauge the levelness scientifically.

I actually genuinely believe treeless or soft trees are the way forward. Just look at how many treed saddles are now used with shimmy pads to get the optimum fit at that point in time and how many mainstream companies now produce them compared to just 10 years ago. Modern horses and our regimes/working hours etc mean they change shape so much between the seasons depending on fitness levels and regime (ie fat at grass in summer).

[solomon]

It's a complete minefield! I have ridden in both and can't say I could tell but flock seems more logical to me. The cair always have a thin layer of flock under the ballon so risk of lumpiness lust as great.
My YO is a trained LAVINIA MITCHELL saddle fitter so obviously I have mine checked very regularly.
She informed me last week I may need a major tree adjustment!! Only a couple of hundred quid!! Going to try a wider saddle first to see if it changes him. He is going well at the moment touch wood.
Sorry slight thread hijack!

[brigadier]

Apr 10, 2016 18:30:43 GMT haffyfan said:

I've ridden on a cair saddle a couple of times, if i'm honest i don't recall it feeling any different to normal (and it was years ago before Murph was backed so i was riding treed at the time). However shortly after buying it the cair was actually replaced by flocking at the back persons guidance as it was causing the mare issues. She certainly had no more issues thereafter ridden in same saddle. I have heard of lots of people who have had them swapped over so is it the saddlers/specialists don't like it or is it troublesome?

You would think cair would be more comfortable as flock can settle and go lumpy whereas the cair should be generally smoother and you can gauge the levelness scientifically.

I actually genuinely believe treeless or soft trees are the way forward. Just look at how many treed saddles are now used with shimmy pads to get the optimum fit at that point in time and how many mainstream companies now produce them compared to just 10 years ago. Modern horses and our regimes/working hours etc mean they change shape so much between the seasons depending on fitness levels and regime (ie fat at grass in summer).

Haf, there is also research out there re tree v treeless. It's old research so there may be more recent findings. Initially treeless performs better for short rides ie. Hacking etc but for prolonged periods they cause pressure issues, unlike conventional saddles which perform better . It is a minefield!!

[racaille]

I'm using both on a regular basis and can't tell any difference but that might be because I cannot really compare a dressage saddle (Cair) with a flap-less rando saddle (flock)

I think there is still huge scope for improvements in saddle design but having had a treeless saddle I am not now convinced it is the way forward unless you are light as a feather. There is still the big problem of diffusing the weight from the stirrups and pressure points are a real problem.

[haffyfan]

I've seen some of the treed/treeless research but they never told you which saddles they used! Massive bug bear as so many poorly designed ones on the market which ultimately give all a bad name. I would hazard a guess at 8/10 treeless riders now use nasty imported saddles as so cheap. It seems to win over the untold damage they are doing in most cases...

My Saddles have the stirrup bars attached to a thick strip of 'fabric' that runs the entire length of the saddle but yes your right Rac, as most just hook over on a thin strap creating a massive pressure point. Plus people forget your not suppose to ride in the forward seat or stand in stirrups generally for excessive periods of time in them. Reputable companies also suggest weight limits on treeless...

[jane]

I have had the Flair system in my old Albion - which was very comfortable and so easily adjusted. I have flock in my new saddle, which is obviously expensive to re-flock but again is very comfortable.

Having had both I would certainly consider Flair (adjustable air-flocking) as opposed to the Cair which is not adjustable, and regular flocking, again which can be adjusted.

Personally, I am not a fan of treeless saddles.