|
|
Post by racaille on Jan 5, 2015 9:16:13 GMT
Not me but Paco.
On Saturday we had a really great jumping session and even managed a 'big' jump to finish with which made me very happy. But Paco is tripping over his feet a lot, even when collected. He stumbled twice in the arena.
Yesterday we went out for a nice gentle hack. We were slobbing along when suddenly he tripped over his feet and couldn't find his footing again and went down on both front knees with his face in the dirt. Luckily I didn't go over his head. No damage to his knees and not lame, so no harm done.
But should I be concerned by this tripping? He's just been shod so not long, out hacking it could just be that he was buckle end and not paying attention, but I have noticed he trips quite a lot now.
|
|
|
|
Post by zara on Jan 5, 2015 10:50:38 GMT
Poor Paco, glad to hear he was no worse for wear. I had / have similar problems with Tordi and it is very worrying. I think part of T's problem is sometimes clumsiness but earlier in the year I do think it was due to "heel pain" and I found he had a really bad infection in his frog and heels. I felt dreadful for not spotting it earlier. Currently he isn't tripping much more than any "normal" horse and when he does it's usually beacuase he is behind my leg, staring at something and not paying attention etc, also being fat and unfit doesn't help. I think you need to exclude "heel pain" and a toe first landing. Someone mentioned to me navicular but it just didn't fit with Mr T as he's never been lame and he did have definite infection at the time the tripping was at it's worst. Hope he's OK and there is a simple explanation xx
|
|
|
|
Post by fleabitten on Jan 5, 2015 17:54:46 GMT
Good advice from Zara there. Sorry to hear about the tripping but nice that you've been getting on well riding wise! Maybe try doing a flexion test on him?
|
|
|
|
Post by zara on Jan 5, 2015 20:19:45 GMT
As far s I'm aware hind limb problems (ie hock) potentially identified on a flexion test wouldn't cause forelimb tripping. AJ has DJD a would fail flexion tests but doesn't trip! Tordi had a full vetting and hock xrays and was tripping. Also there are questions about their relevance and if they can themselves cause problems.
|
|
|
|
Post by fleabitten on Jan 5, 2015 21:38:56 GMT
Thats interesting zara, thats for clarifying that!  Perhaps im confusing it with toe dragging or something lol |
|
|
|
Post by racaille on Jan 7, 2015 7:13:17 GMT
Good thought Zara, so I have checked his heels but there is no tenderness there so I think I can rule that out. He doesn't seem to be landing toe first.
|
|
|
|
Post by brigadier on Jan 7, 2015 20:12:29 GMT
So the other thing it could be is a touch of sidebone, happens to them all as they get older and its the reason why a lot of older horses go shorter and eventually a bit potterie. The wings of the pedal bone are cartilage at the tips and as they get older these solidify- if you press into the softer area just above the bulbs of his heel it should give and feel springy, but in sidebone this feels harder. You would maybe notice this when ridden- going down a hill- the horse takes more care when planting its feet so the rider thinks the hill is slippy but actually the horse is feeling less give in its foot. Not heard about it being the primary cause of tripping but it makes sense that it could add to it.Treatment would be something a farrier could possibly help with and something like 'no bute'.
|
|
|
|
Post by racaille on Jan 8, 2015 5:42:04 GMT
That's an interesting thought Brig and one that does make a lot of sense - he is very 'careful' going down slopes. I'll check his heel bulbs. We don't do bute here, people treat with equine aspirin, which is cheap and easy.
|
|
|
|
Post by brigadier on Jan 8, 2015 12:55:39 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by racaille on Jan 10, 2015 18:18:30 GMT
I can't imagine what the postage would be on that!  But some news: my girl farrier from the Alpes came today to trim Sam and Dr Evil, who has not been trimmed often in his life. When I was at the last house he was self-trimming on the stony land. Now he is on sand it's a different matter and he is NOT good and patient with the farrier  Last time my usual guy ended up hanging him from a tree. Didn't ever want to see that again so asked the girl to do him. He was not thrilled but she was kind and patient and it went without a hitch.  I asked her about Paco's tripping and she said, well, I'm here, get him up and I'll have a look at him. (This was a generous thing as her next appointment was an hour and a half away) She felt his heel bulbs and said all was normal BUT ... she said that, for her, he was far too long in the heel. She pointed out his tendons were pronounced and said it was like he was running around in high heels. She admitted that he was trimmed exactly as they train them in college (she is very young) but said she preferred to listen to the horse and her own old pony also stumbled a lot until she trimmed back its heels. What she said made perfect sense and I would like her to take over Paco. BUT ... as she pointed out, if he threw shoe she is miles away and might not be able to come over. She suggested I ask my normal farrier to trim him harder on the heel but I can't see that going down very well .....  |
|
|
|
Post by fleabitten on Jan 10, 2015 21:23:20 GMT
Well thats great theres a simple solution, just a pity its a bit of a hassle to actually carry it out! Dammit Sorry cant think of anything helpful at the moment.... was going to suggest that she trims him and regular farrier can just put a shoe on if it comes off but then hes going to wonder why youre not getting him to trim his feet too! |
|
|
|
Post by brigadier on Jan 11, 2015 15:53:57 GMT
Or boot him all round and have her do the trims? Hope that sorts it Rac- fingers crossed.
|
|
|
|
Post by racaille on Jan 12, 2015 7:31:51 GMT
I thought all night about that idea Brig but have reluctantly realised it is not really feasible. Paco is primarily a rando horse and I think boots might be too complicated. I would prefer to keep him shod. Boots work for Sam as he mostly works on sand and when he goes hacking (which he loves!) it is only for an hour or two. Rac is barefoot as he has iron feet but even he goes oooh ahhh over the worst of the small sharp stones. I have decided that I will discuss the issue with my normal farrier. If he poo-poos the problem (he can be very dismissive) I will have to change farrier to another local one. This is like getting a divorce and there will be blood on the carpet  |
|
|
|
Post by racaille on Dec 14, 2015 3:10:44 GMT
Well, nearly a year on and the problem seems to be getting worse. I've googled it and it seems there are many and varied causes of tripping, none of them good. Don't think it's his saddle as it happens in all three of his saddles and also when he is working correctly. He is now being shod by my new farrier who is rebalancing his hind feet as he has a tendency to walk on the outside of his hooves but even though he was recently shod he still falls over his feet regularly. He will be 20 (ish) in the spring so it may be that he is coming up to retirement soon. He would LOVE that! |
|
|
|
Post by brigadier on Dec 14, 2015 3:20:15 GMT
Sorry to hear it isn't getting better. Maybe it is just age catching up. Is he on any form of supplement for mobility? I'm not a huge supplement fan but the evidence to support turmeric as a general anti inflammatory is convincing. Might be worth considering. He is a valuable riding horse so worth considering.
|
|
|
|
Post by racaille on Dec 14, 2015 4:52:31 GMT
How to administer turmeric Brig? And do you buy it in bulk?
|
|
|
|
Post by solomon on Dec 14, 2015 8:41:10 GMT
Bute/aspirin trial? If it's pain you will find out.
|
|
|
|
Post by brigadier on Dec 14, 2015 9:13:31 GMT
For the horses I buy a huge bag from Amazon or similar, then a big grinder of black pepper and put some good olive oil in a squeezy sauce bottle. I tip plenty of Turmeric into cool mix so they all get a bit at feed time but in particular Basil and Toudle. But you can add to the feed by sthingy (work up to two desert sthingys x 2 per day approx to start) then a good squirt of olive oil and a good twist of fresh ground (must be fresh) pepper. The oil helps the absorption and the pepper activates the curcurmin which is the good bit. devotees will say everything has to be organic and cold pressed. you can use coconut oil as well but avoid other oils as they have been proven to increase inflammation. I used to make up the golden paste but too faffy for me. Ask the teenager to research Turmeric User Group on facebook for all info/trials and recipes. For myself I buy Youtheory capsules from Costco and find these super effective (no pain in hip and less in heel since using) but a bit pricey for a horse!! It seems (for me) to work better for long term chronic stuff so perfect for horses) My usual Amazon supplier has stopped so I need a new one- I suspect they will have has a review and their prices will rocket!
Some horses love it- they will all have orange noses.
|
|
|
|
Post by racaille on Dec 14, 2015 11:44:56 GMT
Thanks I will try this. The reviews seem to suggest it is a very low cost miracle worker  |
|
|
|
Post by zara on Dec 14, 2015 12:40:43 GMT
I use the Global Herbs Turmeric on both my boys and I think AJ is much better in his hocks. I was reading on the HH forum and someone on there used to be an Admin on the FB Turmeric page and she was saying that horses don't require the fresh pepper and oil which brings the price down. Mine have 2 scoops of turmeric/day and linseed oil. Certainly worth a trial. Sorry to hear that he's still tripping x
|
|
|
|
Post by brigadier on Dec 14, 2015 15:53:39 GMT
Id heard somewhere also that horses dont need the bp or oil but couldn't find any back up evidence so still give it as others do. The linseed oil is good for them in any case. Is thereany listed in the global hebs ingredients Zara?
|
|
Perhaps im confusing it with toe dragging or something lol
for so much hard work we thank ye!!
Last time my usual guy ended up hanging him from a tree. Didn't ever want to see that again so asked the girl to do him.
