This made me cry

[spotti]

I don't quite know where to put this, so figured horse care and health was as good a place as any.

Please watch this and then you'll see what it is I'm fighting for. I know the girl at the end is sort of doing 'parelli type stuff', but the message she's conveying is more important than anything else in the video.

I'm not trying to tell anyone they're wrong, but next time you ride, try to see things through your horses eyes and think, really think, do you really need to give him a smack? Is he really misbehaving? or am I just asking him wrong? Is it something I've done? and how can I help?

Like I said, this made me cry because it is exactly what we should all be fighting against! We've all said about horse cruelty/slaughter/abuse being wrong...but this is it. And the worst thing of all is that it happens everyday, right under our noses and nobody is doing anything about it.

Just because they can't answer back, doesn't mean they don't understand/have an opinion. Horses are smart. Give them respect

[Becca]

Aww spotti i can see why it upset you, it was the holes in the horses side from spurs that got me.

Although I do think she is only looking at the extreme, many horses are perfectly happy in a bit especially if the rider is gentle and knows the actions of the any tool they use. (not trying to start a dabate but thought i would put it in)

Good on her for getting people to think about their actions though, hope it works, even if just on a few people.

Ooo this made me think of all the little brats you see beating their ponies because they lose a class or knock a jump, makes me want to see how they like it

[Maes Seren]

That is awful

Glad to say i would never do such a thing.

My first horse came with spur cuts on his sides, apparently from some other people who tried him ... however his owner always wore spurs too...

[chiefsmyboy]

That's terrible, I would never dream of hanging onto my ponies mouths like that or any of what's on there come to think of it. What's worrying is that some of the people looked like professional riders

[finefilly]

that was awful but unfortunately very common. you see them at shows if their horses arent doing what they want they beat em, scream at them. they are not machines, they have feelings and like us, can have an off day

[otto]

Whislt I deplore cruelty in any discipline, to single out the use of bits as the issue is completely missing the point. It is poor / disgraceful riding that is causing the pain.
Interestingly at the end of the vid were she is showing how much kinder she is than the majority of the equestrian world she stops her horse by putting weight on to the thin rope around its neck. Does she not realise that this works because it restricts the breathing due to pressure being applied to the trachea?
Kinder in who's eyes than a correctly used bit?
Just to balance the view











5 different horses covering all 3 disciplines and not the slightest adverse reaction to the use of a bit.
Vid is typical fanatical view point.

[kateflashy]

im in agreement with otto
i do compete regulary or did and hope to again soon but i always treat the bit like a piece of cotten that would snap if you pulled to tight and as for a horse head tossing through bit mis use if you had seen my masha her head was all over the place and she was ridden in a flexi happy mouth that was so soft it could be bent in half

[Maes Seren]

Ive never gone bitless, and i dont ever intend too.

One of my horses is in a pelham to jump/hack and a snaffle (without hooks) for everything else but is in mylers only for his comfort, id never ride him in anything else as he purely hates it. Ive tried it, even with similar bits, but weve resigned ourselves to the fact that hes a stable boy who loves his mylers.

My girls are both in snaffles, Bertha shares Eddies myler (without hooks) or has her own eggbutt snaffle and Gem is in a neue schule hanging cheek.

I dont compete regularly as im not lucky enough to have the horses to be out there, and also the transport but i dont whack my horses in the mouth like in the video.

[brigadier]

I looked at this vid and decided I didnt want/ have the time to reply but I think OTTO and Kateflashy have summed up what I want to say. Its not so much the bit- its the rider- and usually the bit becomes more severe as the rider becomes more ignorant- however I have seen some horses being ridden with the equine equivalent of a shopping trolley in their mouths and be completely happy. Yes the picture of the bloody flanks made me wince as that is abuse!

The girl who posted these on Youtube and the various other sensationalist vids is clearly missing the point- but she seems happy!!!!!!!
brig

[spotti]

I was quite upset when I posted this, so wasn't really thinking about what I was writing. However, I personally believe bitless is the way forward and whoever thought of putting a piece of metal in a horse mouth to control it by pain was horrid. I also think whoever invented 'pulling' of a horses mane/tail was barbaric, using spurs is mean and a whip is just completely unneccessary...but then again, who am I to tell them they're wrong.

If I can convince just a few people and they each convince a few, the world will be a much nicer place for horses to be. My aim in life is the same as Monty Roberts' - "I'd like to leave the world in a better state than I found it"

Again, my opinion.

[rebanna]

someone at my old college broke her horses nose useing a bitless bridle anything can be harmfull in the wrong hands

[otto]

Horses respond to pressure. That pressure can be wisper light, abusively heavy and anything in between. How that pressure is applied is up to the individual on the horse but make no mistake, it is still pressure of some sort that it responds to. Bitless can exert as much prssure as a bit, just in a different place.
As for spurs, they should be a refinement of the leg aid. When used correctly a rider can wear spurs on a horse all day and never touch the horse with them. And whips? Another sort of prssure, again down to how and when used.
As I said before, its not what is used but how it is used that causes the problem. Education is the way forward.

[brigadier]

Hi Spottilover- the images are awful but that is what this girl is intending- have you seen the other vids she has done re horse slaughter etc. Most of the horses are not subject to slaughter- they have died and are rotting away- not pleasant to see and upset the viewer but some of these may have died natural deaths. the problem with people doing things like this is that you see only what they want you to see, its the same as sensationalist reporting in newspapers- it may be the truth but its probably half the truth. Try to remain balanced in your viewpoint and consider all aspects that way your opinion counts and you can be proud of it. Sorry if this is a bit preachy- its not intended to be- your opinion is really important and your ideals cannot be faulted....... but there are reasons that people use whips/spurs, bits etc and although they get abused there are a lot of people who use them for the good of the horse and for the good of horse welfare.

The important thing is that by posting this you have made people think and that is important!
reards
Brig

[Maes Seren]

Spotti, we all have our own opinions and they all stand for each and every one of us.

Now i believe that theres a chance for anything to work, but even bitless can cause pain in the wrong hands, just as can a bit.
What drives me insane is those people who refuse to look at other ideas, say their horse hates a bit, they refuse to look at bitless, or vice versa because of principles.
I also hate it when someone refuses point blank to use a whip so they sit there kicking the crap out of the horse, which im sure youll agree isnt humane.

As for pulling manes, everyone has their own opinion, my friend would rather cut her horses manes with scissors, some like to leave them long, others like to pull, its someones opinion. I do pull my girls mane, however i take it out in small chunks over a period of a week or two so shes not subjected to a massive change.

If youre careful and gentle, anything can be kind to the horse. Although completely NH people would probably recommend taking me far away from horses as possible as i wont follow their rules as it doesnt work!!!

[kateflashy]

thats it exactly its not the tools you use its the way you use them

i always jump my harvey in spurs and to me it seems a kinda method because he is dead to the leg so i can kick him contstantly and bruise his sides or give a gentle nudge once with the spurs
i dont pull tails i alway clip them if anything and i always do manes with a solo comb i dont carry a whip for normal riding at all and only with a couple of mine in jumping competitions as i find that on turning sharp placing the whip on the shoulder helps keep them balanced and stops them leaning in to the turn as they have a habit of moterbiking and risk slipping over

[maximum]

While some of this is showing over the top and cruelty many - in fact the vast majority are simply a snap shot in time and you could just as easily have pictures of horses with their mouths open like that whilst running about the field. Did anyone else see the fact that one of the riders who is "abusing" their horse with a bit is actually using a hackamore!!!

She is -as brig points -out stopping her horse by blocking its ability to breathe correctly using a very thin rope and is probably doing more damage to its back by bouncing her not inconsiderable weight about its back than any of us do by using a bit in a careful and considerate manner.

[aimee]

Yeah I think the vid was a little over dramatised in parts. People who think they are being kind to their horses by using a bitless, its just makes me laugh. You can do more damage with a hackamore than you can with a gag. But I supose, some horses and their riders get on with them, some prefer using a bit. Everyones different at the end of the day! I also know that a bit can be very severe for a horse...but there is just 1 thing making all these bits and bitless' severe...people!

Maxi, I thought I saw the hackamore in the vid...werent too sure though at first! Also agreeing with you over the rope around the horses neck. Can't quite work that out. Can see her saying that her bouncing about on the horses back being kinder than a saddle next!

Also agreeing that people get all frigid over carrying a whip. Don't know about others but just carrying a whip so she can see it gets my girl listening more, not necessarily having to use it! I'd stand with all the anti-animal cruelty protesters in the world, but I'd much rather give my horse a flick on the shoulder than having to kick her umteem times so she becomes sore and leg-dead!

To conclude...quote from the wise words of Fug R.E the bitless...

"They claim cranking on the poll like that releases "calming endorphins." WTF? . let me tell you, it doesn't work because it releases calming endorphins. It works because poll pressure is f*cking painful and gets a horse's attention quickly."

[Maes Seren]

Ive been told im cruel and im neglecting my horse before by obeying vets instructions - no feed, water or rug whilst still under sedation due to where cut is, and obv you dont give horses anything like feed or water incase they choke... so, i go down the yard to find my girl with hay, water and a rug :X ... It was the last straw, i moved off that yard, still fuming, 3 months down the line!

Also been told im cruel because i agree with twitching when its necessary... Better than sedation!!!

[zara]

I'm afraid I'm of the opinion that the video is just sensational clap trap. The majority of the horses aren't being abused and the pics are just as maxie says " snap shots " in time. I'm sure that if you videoed me schooling AJ and he had one of his tantrums you'd be able to find stills like these and I am definitely not heavy handed. Also re: bitless and hackamores you can do just as much damage witht hese than with a bit, even break a horses jaw. A bit or a bitless bridle is only as severe as the hands at the other end.

As for whips they should be an extension of your leg and never used as punishment. Z

[popsicle]

I must admit the way the vid was shot, the wording and the music did make for very distressing viewing and tugged at the heart strings, but I agree with the majority that although bits can be cruel if used by someone heavy handed, so can bitless. We just need to remember what is at the other end of the reins and release pressure as soon as the horse complies.

[fimacg]

Hi Spotti
I ride Chompy in spurs (dummy ones) most of the time, simply because this is better for him and for me as I dont have to keep booting him the ribs to get him to go, at the moment as he had improved to the leg aids with the spurs and I have taken them off, but if he deadens again to the leg again, I will put the spurs back on as a reminder.

[maximum]

May 9, 2008 16:04:19 GMT fimacg said:

Hi Spotti
I ride Chompy in spurs (dummy ones) most of the time, simply because this is better for him and for me as I dont have to keep booting him the ribs to get him to go, at the moment as he had improved to the leg aids with the spurs and I have taken them off, but if he deadens again to the leg again, I will put the spurs back on as a reminder.

yup a good idea for horses that get dead to leg easily. I have short and long ones and use the long ones for dressage and flatwork and the short ones for jumping- if required!

[Blonde Donkey]

i don't use spurs because my lower leg is unstable and i don't trust myself to use them but i would use them if i needed and could trust myself

[suzii]

That vid made me feel so bad about using a bit. Its sooo sad.

[maximum]

May 10, 2008 21:02:25 GMT suzii said:

That vid made me feel so bad about using a bit. Its sooo sad.

suzii- please read all the comments posted on this thread by people with lots of experiance. Its a piece of emotional blackmail. there is nothing wrong with using a bit correctly so do not feel bad.

this makes me so angry. It is all very well pointing out the problems associated with bits but to make out all bits used by all people is wrong is dangerous. the next thing will be inexperianced people trying to ride their ponies along the roads with bits of string round their necks.