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Post by zara on Feb 5, 2014 14:28:32 GMT
Well as I'm sure some of you are aware my little Spanish lovely is FAT and he seriously needs to lose weight :(When he arived in March '11 he was lean but certainly not thin and he rapidly filled out that first year. During the second year his weight didn't alter much and he was very fit; regularly competing in dressage, long distance hacks / pleasure rides. Sadly last year due to a combination of my ill health, the stress of moving yards and then moving back and the dreadful weather through the Autumn and Winter he's got fat. His weight hasn't changed much but he's lost muscle. He's currently fed 1.5Kg of Spillers HappyHoof and a large net of hay which weighs any where between 12-15Kg depending on who filled it. On good weather days he's turned out for upto 6 hours but if they're in he gets a small net. There is very little grass to eat in the field. I need t cut him down and I think m options are: 1 reduce his Happy Hoof and give him a broad spectrum vit and min supplement and reduce hay t 10Kg/day 2 Low calorie, unmollased chop (Hi-Fi Lite) a feed balancer and 10Kg hay. My question i does anyone have any experinece with feed balancers and over weight horses, d they give any advantage over a supplement?
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Post by brigadier on Feb 5, 2014 15:07:15 GMT
Zara, no help on the feed balancers Im afraid but Im thinking Tordi is around 15hh? given that and a typical spanish build he doesnt want much more than 28lb combined food per day, or just over 12kg, so on his light days he was still getting well over that, so your estimate of 10kg hay and then concentrate is about right now, just watch how much concentrate he gets, if not working much he wants very little.
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Post by zara on Feb 5, 2014 15:26:23 GMT
Brig he's just 15hh and weighs over 500Kg probably about 520 but didn't get him weighed this last time Spillers came out. One of my problems is that I was always taught that horses need ad lib forage to avoid colic and I'm paranoid about colic! Three horses on our yard have died of colic and although each case was very different it scares the p***s off me! I was thinking about feed balancers and low calorie chaff so that he gets what he needs and he still thinks he's being fed. I've asked the staff to double net his hay to slow him down because i have never met a horse that can eat so quick! I'm also hoping to start riding after work now the nights are drawing out a bit but so far the weather has been against us.
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Post by racaille on Feb 5, 2014 17:24:24 GMT
Bless you Zara it must be so difficult, what with the weather at the moment - and it has been like this for ages, hasn't it? As you know  I am not a fan of chaff. And I would seriously have a think about whether he needs any hard feed at all. Good hay should provide all he needs as he's not growing or in hard work. Paco is pretty much the same build and height as Tordi and is on ad lib hay (round bale) but I've just done the sums and he and Racaille put away about 10kg of hay a day. Neither of them have had anything else (other than salt/mineral lick and the odd carrot/parsnip/cabbage etc) for five years. They have both put on a bit weight due to our bad weather too. But as you say, exercise is the key and if you can get out and about soon I'm sure he'll drop the weight quite quickly. |
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Post by ernieburt on Feb 5, 2014 19:24:20 GMT
Not the easiest but if you can soak the hay at least over night it reduces the goodness and will help reduce weight still feeding the same amount. I would always feed either a vit supplement or low cal balancer feeding this way (or any way unless you get your hay tested) I believe a balancer can be a complete feed ie contans proteins ect so no need to add anything but a vit supplement will have to be fed along side something ie fibrebeet/unmolassed chaff (just examples). Fed in such small amounts to mix the supplement in should cause no problems, hold back on carrots and treats these are all added calories!
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Post by zara on Feb 5, 2014 20:08:22 GMT
Sadly soaking hay isn't easy as my boys are on full livery. Tordi doesn't get any hard feed as such just the Happy Hoof which is low calorie, 8MJ/kg. Having them on full livery does remove my ability to manage him exactly as I'd like but I don't have any option so I have to do my best. I think my preferred option is to reduce his HH and add a vit/min supplement although my YO has said that a balancer and low cal chop would be included so actually cheaper for me as I wouldn't have to pay for the supplement!
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Post by zara on Feb 5, 2014 20:10:30 GMT
Rac, thank you for your kind comments. I suspect however that the Happy Hoof is probably lower in "food" content than our hay this year so I should perhaps swap his hay for low cal chop but that would be very expensive.
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Post by brigadier on Feb 5, 2014 20:20:52 GMT
I know what you mean about the colic issue and also being out of control when they are on full livery. I too believe in ad lib, but if he is fat then you do rather have to balance the supply as he is such a good doer, my little pony is also too fat at the mo and with spring just around the corner that's not a good thing.I do the little and often approach, but I feel awful when he is stood without. This article has some useful information in especially about balancing hay only diets. www.thehorse.com/articles/33278/formulating-equine-diets?utm_source=Newsletter&utm_medium=older-horse-care&utm_campaign=01-31-2014Lungeing does tend to help them trim the tummies a bit, is he fit enough to be lunged daily? Even fifteen/ twenty mins with the last five mins involving lots of canter will help him slim. |
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Post by brigadier on Feb 5, 2014 20:20:54 GMT
I know what you mean about the colic issue and also being out of control when they are on full livery. I too believe in ad lib, but if he is fat then you do rather have to balance the supply as he is such a good doer, my little pony is also too fat at the mo and with spring just around the corner that's not a good thing.I do the little and often approach, but I feel awful when he is stood without. This article has some useful information in especially about balancing hay only diets. www.thehorse.com/articles/33278/formulating-equine-diets?utm_source=Newsletter&utm_medium=older-horse-care&utm_campaign=01-31-2014Lungeing does tend to help them trim the tummies a bit, is he fit enough to be lunged daily? Even fifteen/ twenty mins with the last five mins involving lots of canter will help him slim. |
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Post by brigadier on Feb 5, 2014 20:20:56 GMT
I know what you mean about the colic issue and also being out of control when they are on full livery. I too believe in ad lib, but if he is fat then you do rather have to balance the supply as he is such a good doer, my little pony is also too fat at the mo and with spring just around the corner that's not a good thing.I do the little and often approach, but I feel awful when he is stood without. This article has some useful information in especially about balancing hay only diets. www.thehorse.com/articles/33278/formulating-equine-diets?utm_source=Newsletter&utm_medium=older-horse-care&utm_campaign=01-31-2014Lungeing does tend to help them trim the tummies a bit, is he fit enough to be lunged daily? Even fifteen/ twenty mins with the last five mins involving lots of canter will help him slim. |
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Post by solomon on Feb 5, 2014 20:30:00 GMT
Aww! Poor Tordi, just confiscate his take-away menus! Tough love! I will be only feeding soaked hay forever  Haylage will be a distant sweet memory for Pete when he comes home. Lots of work even if it's in hand walking. I will have a slim Pete by summer! |
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Post by solomon on Feb 6, 2014 11:30:16 GMT
When you are there you could soak hay, or is this not allowed? TThink it would help him a great deal. Even soaking for an hour turns the water brown, must dissolve some sugars. Just googled it, hay soaked for 16 hours loses 27% of water soluble carbohydrate, but soaking for 20 minutes reduces it by 5%. Every little helps?
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Post by zara on Feb 6, 2014 12:04:59 GMT
Sol, the "water police" wouldn't be happy! Beth has made a steamer which looks great but not surprisingly she doesn't want to share and I'm surprised that the "water police" AKA the "electric ploice" have allowed it!
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Post by solomon on Feb 6, 2014 20:43:45 GMT
Steaming only helps with the spores anyway so wouldn't help you. What about feeding some straw?
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jane
Novice Willy Washer
Posts: 954
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Post by jane on Feb 15, 2014 18:38:42 GMT
I think feeding nice quality Oat Straw is a good alternative to hay for fatties - have done this successfully many times. If you think he needs a balancer then Baileys Lo-Cal is excellent but I only feed this to Debbie as she is so old. I would be tempted not to with a younger horse.
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Post by fimacg on Feb 20, 2014 11:59:34 GMT
I give all of mine a handful of hi fi lite and Baileys Lo Cal balancer. Last summer I took them off the hard feed for a few months and Chompy's feet started cracking again within a couple of months, after I put them back on it you could see a visible improvement in the new hoof growth. I also found they had less energy and just didnt look as good, so I wont be trying that little experiment again.
Chompy lost over 100kg (in the space of 2 years) on this diet but he was obese when I bought him. Brave still manages to put weight on by breathing in grass fumes, so I'm already thinking about turning him out in a grazing muzzle. For Brave exercise is the only thing that keeps the weight off as he is another houdini, but most of time will keep his muzzle on as he seems to suck up grass through the hole in the bottom like spaghetti...
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Post by scattymare on Feb 20, 2014 12:41:32 GMT
I use a balancer for Ed as she is on such poor grazing and hay is soaked so she's probably not getting required vits and mins. After talking to nearly all the equine nutritionalists at YHL I have settled on 1kg of Dengie Good Doer (which is half the RDA) and 200 grams Spillers Lite balancer (again half the RDA as being toppoed up by the Good Doer) The Good Doer is about £12 a bag and lasts 20 days. The balance is about £19 and lasts 50 days at these amounts (eddie is 14.2 and weighs around 450 kilos)
In addition she has half a small hay bale in the field daily which is shared with one other. When she comes in (about 3 at the moment)she has a small 1-2 kilo haynet (soaked), then overnight she has 4 kilos soaked hay (dry weight) served in her trickle net. She is exercised probably 5 times a week - light schooling work in the week, long hacks/lesson/comp at the weekend.
She is maintaining a good weight on this regime (still slightly squishy for my liking but was waiting for the cold snap!!) and her coat and hooves seem in really good condition.
A point of interest - Spillers Lite is not actually lower calorie than Spillers original (well it is but only ever so slightly) It's lower in Protein and slightly lower in amounts of other vits. I'm not sure if this is the case for other balancer brands but slightly misleading.
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Post by racaille on Feb 21, 2014 11:19:23 GMT
Brig that's a very interesting article about hay-only diets. If they have a mineral/salt lick, (I quote) ......
It should be noted that most horses do not need concentrates to meet their major nutritional requirements, as indicated by the previous example with the timothy hay. Most horses are in light to moderate work and can easily get their nutrient requirements through hay.
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Post by brigadier on Feb 21, 2014 12:03:48 GMT
I know and if feeding haylage the nutritional value is increased so it makes a mockery of all these fancy diets.
My problem is Ive always given a small feed more for interest value and it breaks up the day for them, plus I've never had a horse which wont be caught as they've always come in to a small feed. Im a bit annoyed actually as all the blurb on hi fi is for maintenance and yet looking into it I find its actually high protein so with haylage its a potent thingytail, hence Harriot having itch problems (now much better). So now changing to an oat based chop which should be better.
Have you noticed though how nearly everything is molassed. There is some evidence to support molassed feed encouraging fence chewing as the tanalise process makes the wood sweet, similar to molasses. One of the reasons they use it is to bind the fine dust or sweepings as my old employer used to say! Think the blurb says 'increases palatability'
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Post by racaille on Feb 21, 2014 14:14:45 GMT
Very few 'leisure horses' down here get any hard feed (but I have to admit it is easier if you are feeding hay all year round as you don't have to worry about the quality of grass etc) but I am careful to know the provence and cut of my hay (although most people don't care, they feed any old stuff). I'm having an ongoing mini-argument with a chum of mine who feeds all three of his horses pure luzerne hay. Needless to say the ridden two are both hyper - the fat mare is hot to the point of lunacy. The competition horse does at least get out a lot to get rid of some of his energy but his very slim teenage rider is often almost in tears trying to contain him. But my mate won't listen ((even to our coach) that that much luzerne is not good for his horses (and he's never heard of the phosphorus/calcium ratio, yet alone does anything to correct it That imbalance is not good for his young unbroken horse either.) However, I've been giving Sam a cool mix because it was an easy way of getting some biotine in him and he's been growing fast. I don't know if I will go on with that. Brig I can't imagine your horses not coming at a gallop to you - they know you always have a treat for them! Sam practically mugs me for a carrot every evening when I faff around with rugs! |
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Post by fleabitten on Feb 23, 2014 10:12:35 GMT
I was going to say what about trying straw? Loan pony's owner mixes straw in with the hay although they don't eat it that well, maybe a really greedy one would eat it better. Maybe if you always had straw in the stable he would get hungry and eat it eventually, then give him less hay at meal times. Loan pony only gets a handful of cool mix and I'm riding him regularly so I'd maybe cut out the feed and just keep a non molassed vitamin or salt lick in the stable
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for so much hard work we thank ye!!
I am not a fan of chaff. And I would seriously have a think about whether he needs any hard feed at all. Good hay should provide all he needs as he's not growing or in hard work. 
Haylage will be a distant sweet memory for Pete when he comes home. Lots of work even if it's in hand walking. I will have a slim Pete by summer!
