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Post by racaille on Apr 29, 2016 10:33:36 GMT
I need to know the right questions to ask horse owners/sellers in the UK . Here we do leg yield and counter canter from Club 2,for example. Paco is pretty good at leg yield and is getting better at shoulder in and counter canter. In France I can ask a seller if a horse is at club 2 level and we both know what I mean.
So how do I describe that level to a UK seller, without listing all the movements? Is there a universal UK test that I can mention?
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Post by brigadier on Apr 29, 2016 15:04:17 GMT
Have a look at some elementary tests on Youtube Rac- see if that level is what you are after.I dont think it is as cut and dried as comparing levels as it seems your system is a bit different. Pboy is more up to date on new tests so can advise better but unless its changed I believe leg yield isnt a dressage movement here, just an exercise. Counter canter is used and is introduced in novice but think its only 5m deviations and holding the named canter across the incline (but again you would have to check re the level as it might be elementary)The defining movement here for an up in level from novice seems to be moving from lengthening to extension. Once you start asking for horses competing at elementary level then you are upping the price considerably as you have a horse that is established and ready to go on. Most trainers that are following a progressive training routine will have introduced all your movements before or around the same time as prelim. For example Welly's leg yield is established. Im introducing counter canter now and also shoulder in. I havent done an Intro yet. And remember its the start of the season here so established horses wont come cheap, a decent aged elementary horse that is non Tb would be around the £10,000 and up mark! The market is very very slow at the moment. Hardly any horses coming up on local pages.
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Post by brigadier on Apr 29, 2016 15:09:40 GMT
Just in addition to the above and after giving it some thought, I would think you should be asking for a decent riding club all rounder type, competing at novice and competing around the 80cm mark but with the ability to go higher.
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Post by racaille on Apr 29, 2016 15:23:37 GMT
Thanks Brig, that is very helpful indeed. Just as well I asked the question really as I might have given the impression I was searching for a Valegro! It is a bit of a minefield. But I have already realised that a 'dressage' horse is much more expensive than a decent all-rounder and as long as I can find a nicely balanced horse my trainer can pull me up to Club 2 - my biggest ambition is Club 1 so very modest. There is a horse in the UK I am interested in- he has 'elastic paces' so I am exploring him a bit and have asked for pix and vids. Haven't come up with anything I want to try in France yet - and why don't horse sellers ever either answer their phones or call you back or pick up their emails? Don't they WANT to sell their horses?
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Post by pboy on Apr 29, 2016 18:19:21 GMT
Pretty much what Brig said! I think any correctly produced horse should be able to do leg yield and counter canter in some form so a horse doing well at RC Novice would be fine. If you can wait, it may be worth looking in Summer when Pony Clubbers are starting to plan for Uni...
Re the levels, Elementary tests have leg yield and counter canter in them, Novice has a teeny bit of counter canter but as Brig says any well-produced horse will be doing those things anyway. The real difference between the levels is the horse's way of going - we're working towards Elementary at home now and the horse is expected to have far more self-carriage and much sharper aids at that level. There are of simple changes through walk on 10m circles, collected / working / medium paces that are 'marker to marker' rather than 'show some lengthened strides' and everything happens very quickly so you really need the horse connected and on the aids, hence the sudden jump up in price for horses with proven Elementary form.
Re: prices, I asked Ali what she would advertise Indio for (purely because she's about to advertise a sales livery so I was curious...Indio will never be for sale!). She said she'd advertise him now at £6000 - because he's a solid all-rounder, very easy in every way, no vices and a generally 'nice person'. But with work (I assume she means get to Elementary as planned with good scores, get him out jumping) he would be worth £10k in a year. I was pleasantly surprised but it made sense when I started having a look through some sales sites, easy horses that can do ok competitively aren't cheap!!
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Post by brigadier on May 5, 2016 8:48:44 GMT
Good thread this as its made me realise just how behind the times I am in terms of tests. Ive just ordered a complete set of intro, prelim and novice as Im shortly starting tests with Welly (once I get our canter situation sorted- more about that on another thread) so I now need to know and I cant keep saying Im behind the times as that is no longer an excuse!!
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Post by brigadier on May 5, 2016 8:53:05 GMT
oh and Rac, beware the term elastic paces- its a very on trend term here. I would prefer 'correct movement' 'balanced' 'straight' in a description. Even the travelling horses are being described as elastic now! However all the ads for top class horses use that and floaty so its kind of bled down to the lesser expensive animals.
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Post by racaille on May 5, 2016 9:47:18 GMT
Good to know Brig, thanks.
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