Schooling Pete

[solomon]

The ongoing saga of me not being able to get my horse on the bridle continues. I had him a couple of times last night which was great 'cos I think I know what I am looking for now at least. I was schooling him in a flash noseband which I know is not great but if I don't he pulls the reins out of my hands gnashing on the bit. Neue schule verbindend. For the last ten minutes I took the noseband off and it was like the handbrake had been on. He rushed forward! I need help, instructors two of 'em say strap him down. the other one didn't but also said i could never do dressage on him! Help! What was working last night was getting him to stretch out long and low then gather up and he felt really nice. Bless him he always tries, just wish I was better at helping him.

[brigadier]

When he stretches long and low he is starting to work through his back, that is why he feels better when he bridles from this. Persist with this- it will take a while but will be better in the long run.
I can understand someone saying strap him in as its a quick fix- but he will miss part of his training and it will tell eventually, it depends on what you want and how patient you are and also how much time you have, it could be a horse that looks good but is tense or one that looks good because it is!

I dont agree that Pete cant do dressage, all horses can, but it may take longer to get him there because of his snatching etc and because you yourself are learning still.
I know very little about Neue Schule bits except they are very expensive and the horses Ive seen use them nearly all have problems because the riders are heavy on their hands.

Dressage in England is in a transition period with trainers moving towards the scales of training methods but still employing some of the more 'traditional' methods. That will cause a confusion in what they are telling you and how Pete is responding. All I can say is decide what you want in the long term and work towards it the best you can.
Ive stopped using a trainer who was simply too 'old school' but have recently used one who was too far the other way. Its a nightmare but doing lots of reading on the classical stuff helps clarify what you want.

[haffyfan]

Regarding the classical that Brig mentions - Have you read Slyvia Loch's books Sol? I think they are fab and very easy to digest too, which some are not!

[solomon]

Nope but if my secret Santa is listening... only if they are within budget of course!

[maximum]

please dont strap him up - it wont help in the long run - and he is telling you what he thinks of it when he rushes off after its taken off. - at the best try a drop correctly fitted if he is opening his mouth and running through your hand.

Do you work him on the lunge or long rein him? lunging in a pessoa will help build the correct muscles helping him to carry himself correctly and more consistantly.

First off I would say forget the phrase ' on the bridle' - that and ' on the bit' it makes it all about the front end - think more of an outline which makes it more of a whole body thing.

imagine the head and neck will only come soft and round if the back end produces enough energy to do that - imagine - if you will -you are the conduit for the energy and feel it come from the back through your seat and channel it through yourself and allow as much or as little as you want to go through - think of your handsseat and body as a door and you open it and allow some through which determines how fast the pace is - working or medium or extended and if you collect that energy then he will bounce off the floor like a wee ball - not run through your hands.

I hate doing this in words - want to be standing beside showing you - how far from inverness to englandshire!!

try this for much better way of saying it!!
www.artofriding.com/

Dressage Formula by Eric herbermann is my bible - its all about doing it right for the horse - no quick fixes, no cheating.

finally I would say dont worry so much - it tenses you try and be proud of how much he has come on and enjoy it!!

[brigadier]

I agree here with Maxi, its so tempting to use the quick fix so you can look 'pretty' and go on and win some dressage or attract admiration (from people who only see the picture and not the story) but the horse misses part of the muscle development that helps it go correctly. Thats not to say that half of the horses produced at international dressage do this, you only have to watch the flashing tails and laid back ears to know that some of it isnt right.

Ive come to realise that established terms such as over bent, on the bit, even outline (sorry maxi!) are now used too easily and subseqeuntly abused. Horses worked long and low will work for some part of it, overbent. This is not incorrect but the times Ive heard people shout- "its overbent!"
Also there is a tendency to overlook a horses natural way of going, some horses simply cannot achieve the classical ideal, they are too long, short in the neck, back, thighs etc so the ideal is the best they can manage.
Ultimately its about working in partnership with the horse to achieve small steps of learning to produce a soft, willing, relaxed and compliant horse. Anything other than that is a travesty, strapping it down wont achieve this.
However what shouldnt be forgotten is that it may help the rider understand what shape they are aiming for hence side reins used in lunge lessons etc. becauseit feels very different to ride a compacted horse than it does a strung out one. But that should not be confused with the training of the horse.

[solomon]

Thank you both this is really helpful. He fights the pessoa interestingly. I would love to learn how to long rein. Not sure I could teach myself but have an instructor who is a fan of it. Thanks again for all your imput. I really appreciate it. I want to help pete to be the best and happiest he can be.

[duckles]

Lovely to read this thread as schooling is a distant memory for me at this stage (due to weather and loads of other things).
I agree totally with what Maxi and Brig are saying. When you do it right, they do it right but it can take ages. My horse, JB, is not unalike Peter in confirmation. While he has had a lot of health issues that didnt help, it has taken him a long long time to work in a shape and along the way I have resisted all pressure to shorten this process by means of heavy rein pressure/gadgets etc. Don't put too much pressure on yourself Sol, it will happen and you will have a happy relaxed horse who is willing to work with you. By the way, long reining is not that difficult, I learnt it through advice on this thread and both my horses took to it really easily, much more so than to lunging. I think it was on the questions and anwers thread. However the thing I found most helpful was a picture Brig posted of long reining- I often find it easier to learn by seeing things than by reading instructions. (Watching good riding always improves my own)
I love reading these kinds of threads as I always learn a lot in the ansers

[solomon]

Thanks, Duckles encourages me to just have a go. The school is a bit hard at the moment but when the weather improves and there's no one around to criticise, I will try.