bitting advice

[rainbow]

Right i need some advice regarding bits.

Atm rosie is in a lozage dutch gag on the 2nd ring. I do have brakes to some extent in this but i think that she is not overly comfortable in it as she sticks her head up in the air, which i think is to evade it.

I have tried her in a jointed full check snaffle and had no brakes and she just tanked off with me.
Before she came to me all she had done was driving, so i am wondering weather she doesnt like the mouth piece and the poll presure.

I have more control with a head collar than i do a bridle (but havnt ridden her in a headcollar)

So i was wondering what u think and suggest?

[fimacg]

It could be a couple of things, its hard to know without seeing some pictures or a video of what she actually does.

1) she may never have been taught to drop her head and work in an outline and instead throws her head up to avoid the pressure, there is a thread somewhere with some really good advice from Brig about how to intially teach the horse what we want with regard to lowering the head rather than raising it. (I'll see if I can find it)
2) she may be uncomfortable in her mouth, have you had her teeth done? sharp edges can catch their cheeks leading to resisitance and evasions
3) it could be the bit, I think here only trial and error will work, if you find she has a fleshytongue she may actually need a thinner mouth piece to give more room in her mouth rather than a wider one or a straight bar or something different.
4) It may be worth trying her with a running or standing martingale which may help you with the brakes and her to understand that evasion by raising her head is not the only answer.

Do you have lessons on her? either way it may be worth having a couple and getting some professional help and advice.

I'm off to see if I can find that thread about teaching the horse about the outline.

[fimacg]

I really can' t find it I am sure it was one started by Rac or Solomon... perhaps they remember

[rainbow]

i think she has never been taught to bring her head down but while out riding she has a natural low head carridge but as soon as u even touch the reins her head goes instantly up. she does wear a running martingale and it dooes help

Her teeth were done in december so not due yet.
I do want some lessons and i think am planning to go with a friend just need some money and go book it.

Yeah think it will be a case of trial and error but i need a starting point! and thought i should ask. We do have a place that hires out bits and their really good just thought id ask u lot first

Think i member what thread u were goin on bout i think it was solomon...

[fimacg]

Brave does the head up in the air when he tries to evade and I found softening the bit worked, but he never had a problem with brakes what made a difference for him was going from a single joint nutcracker action bit to a french link, buy if she already has a lozenge in her bit I dont think that will help.

If you do decide to change bits, I would be tempted to try either a happy mouth straight bar hanging snaffle (to help with the brakes). The action of the gag is bring the head up (I think) so you could try a pelham as an alternative either with roundings or 2 reins, as the poll pressure should lead to the head dropping, although she may not understand at first, which is where that thread would come in very handy.

Basically what Brig was suggesting was in halt, with your leg gently on take a feel down each rein, keep the pressure, it is likely that initially the head will come up but if you keep a constant contact and dont allow them to walk backwards then the head will start to drop. Its very important that the instant the head drops even a tiny little bit that you soften your hands instantly and reward her (with your voice), basically you are trying to tell her that its nice down there and uncomfortable when she wipes your face with her ears.

I hope I got that right...


I

[fimacg]

FOUND IT!!!
thepaddocks.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=members&action=display&thread=6608

[solomon]

It works too! I still have Pete putting his head up sometimes but we are getting there.

[rainbow]

yeah a women at the yard has a rubber straight bar pelham i could try. Problem aswell with her is she thinks legs on means quicker! But i have noticed that i have if i really use my seat she slows down. i noticed by doin sitting trot that she stopped. Its just that she will slow down with the use of the seat but if i want to halt she wont, which is quite dangerous when coming up to junctions on the road!

I think maybe alot of it will come with schooling but i just want to make sure she is confortable in her mouth and hauling on it.

[jane]

I have ridden drivers in a Liverpool driving bit, which is straight barred and fairly mild, I used single reins on the centre ring and didn't use the curb chain. You can use pelham roundings if you want a little more leverage.

[rainbow]

didnt knw u could ride in a liverpool driving bit! Tried her tonight with that pelham and couldnt believe the difference in her. I used it with roundings and i definalty had more brakes and for once she was fighting with the bit by sticking her head up in the air. YO got on her and she was goin lovely for her , her neck was still set high but her head was definalty coming down. YO was quite funny and saying how stubburn she is i was like i knw (ive been saying this for a while so glad she now knws what shes like) when she sets her self to do something there kinda now stopping her, and she is a bit rude.

But all that shall come with schooling. Trouble was that it was a rubber straight bar and was a bit big in her mouth and so she was slightly almost gagging on it, so YO is giing me a french link pelham to try.

Said that stay in a pelham for a while and get her working and listenin thn eventually try a nicer bit and she how she goes, Cause i would like a dressage legal bit!

So yeah trying that tomoz so let ya knw how it goes. anything snaffle atm is a no go, french link and jointed.

[brigadier]

Only just seen this thread and some really great advice from Fi. Sounds as if she is uncomfortable in her mouth, so when you apply the breaks she is saying ow and getting confused, after all slowing down should not be painful. I keep meaning to get a straight bar snaffle, just plain as although pelhams can be useful in the short term they are pretty strong and horses tend to lean on them eventually. I really dont like jointed pelhams, much for the same reason I dont like the dutch gag, but the straight bar snaffle is really comfortable for horses with fleshy tongues. It gives you brakes and is dressage legal.

[rainbow]

yeah i might try that eventually but for the mean time untill shes a bit more schooled i will stick to the pelham although need to go for a metal mullen mouth instead as the rubber is a bit fat for her ickle mouth

Rode her out on a hack in it ysterday and she was really good despite being on her toes the whole way round! had a really nice slow canter and she was was coming round even trot so pelham is doing its job nice to not have a camel for a horse hehe