low cal food

[ceej]

belive it or not Harry is putting weight ON!!! despite the weather being so cold it should have frozen his clipped nads off!! I am much more used to having to keep weight on! All he is on is a few sthingys*** of Allen & paige ride and relaxand a big hanful of Hi Fi lite. If I cut the ride and relax out I know he is missing out on vits and mins (I did this last spring and he started eating poo!)

so is there a better hard mix I can use that is even lower cal (dotn think Ride and relax is particularly high cal though) maybe soemthing for laminitics? Maybe fast fibre woudl be better? Or do you think just chaff with a vit and min supplement. Ideally I actually want himto be a little under going into spring as BOOM!

any suggestions? Gotta go ag merchants tomorrow lunchtime...

*** this is sp00ns whats wrong with that!!!!

[fleabitten]

I would just stick him on a balancer and cut out the ride and relax AND the Hi Fi lite.
Its up to you whether to go for the cubes or the powder and chaff.

Or put him on a laminitics feed as you suggest.

See what your feet merchants has in those lines.

[haffyfan]

Does he have access to mineral/salt licks? If not can he and does he then actually need anything bar hay?

Mine just have hifi lite, alfa beet and hay/grass with various salt licks scattered about (that they rarely use)

[Becca]

I use good doer, which is similar to hi-fi lite. You can also get lo-cal balancer. If he is putting on weight he should be fine on just forage.

[Becca]

www.dengie.com/pages/products/fibre-feed/hi-fi-good-do-er.php

[rebanna]

D&H light is nice has pellets but there's nothing in them and id use a mulity vit supplement or call a feed help line there realy good at working out how much of what they should be getting

[fleabitten]

Haffy - good point about the licks - never thought of this. Cant remember if he lives out or not but if you have a vit and min lick in his stable and one in the field then it saves feeding as well

Rebanna - agree about calling the feed helpline

[joandlad]

Have the same problem with Murph (as you will be more than aware ;D ) but he is still growing so I need to be a little more careful and ensure he is getting his full quota of vits and mins. If you have a fat horse don't put more calories in it by feeding hard feed. The main reason I can see for people giving hard feed is because it makes them feel good. Good quality hay/grazing would usually be enough to ensure they are getting all they need. However, without sending off your hay/grass for analysis it's almost impossible to be sure they are getting all they need so the easiest way to do it is to feed a broad spectrum supplement/balancer. I feed (and recommend to my foot clients) Top Spec Anti-Lam. Bailey's Lo-Cal is a bit cheaper but I've not used it personally. So, literally just feed the recommended amount of balancer with a fist-full of lo-cal (unmolassed if you can get hold of it) chaff/chop (I feed Simple System Lucie Stalks). Harry won't love you any less because he's only getting a tiny feed.

[joandlad]

Meant to say, when you go to the feed store you need to check the ingredients labels on the bags for what is actually in them. Most hard feed doesn't have to have the ingredients printed on the bag but they will have a white label stitched to the top of the bag which lists the individual ingredients. Manufacturers are very cunning in disguising what is in their products (one of the "calm" mixes I looked at had maize in it and maize is the highest energy grain that you can feed!) and something flagged up by being recommended by the lami trust can actually have lots of sugars/molasses in and I, personally, would not put them anywhere near a laminitic. Manufacturers love molasses almost as much as horses do as they are heavy, cheap and addictive. I know it is almost impossible to get hold of pure lucerne/alfalfa. Even the Hi-Fi Lite has sugar syrup (I think that's what they refer to it as) in it.

[Becca]

Jo totally agree about feeding for the feel good factor! Bern would be on nothing if he didn't need a joint suppliment. So all he gets is a sprinkle of that good doer to mixer in with it. Doesn't even cover the botton of a tiny bucket

[fimacg]

My boys get a handful of Hi-Fi light and a cup full of Baileys lo-cal feed balancer once a day dampened with water. they seem happy with it and their feeds are actually bigger than what they were getting before, but hoof quality is improving and I am gradually getting the weight off them

[jane]

I am definately witth Fi on this one.

I absolutely swear by Baileys Lo-Cal, i feed just one pound a day split into two feeds fed with a good quality lightly mollassed chaff. Keeps a good doer wonderfully.

The bag costs £24 but lasts 6 weeks so is actually very good value.

[fleabitten]

Agree with jo - what great advice!

[ceej]

ok me being me I totally forgot I had posted this on here and been to food merchants anyway...oops!! I have to feed soemthing as willow needs food this time of year being old and I dont have time to separate them in the dark when they are out - they ahev to all eat in the field. Harry eats fast though so he has to have fair bit of chaff (also molasses free I think the lite, but I will check) just to stop him finishing and stealing the other horses very rich food - he WOULD be fat on that!) Jo, grass here is brilliant (but of course lacks the same level goodness in winter) but my hay is crap! they are out mostly this year anyway You are right - I feed for me! Harry does LOVE his food though like I have never known!

So this is what I figure I would try -

I will keep both ont he Hi Fi lite - as it can be used as a hay replacer for laminitics with COPD, I dont think a handful of that can be too bad. I have also bought a broad vitimin and mineral supplement - it is a Naf one - I dotn think my merchants does baileys...can you do me a link and maybe Ill get that next time. so they can both have that, which shoudl suffice but also not put weight on. Come March Harry is on fitness programme anyway so should lose some then.

I have bought a bag of A&P Slim and Healthy. I do love my allen & page. its natural, GM, molasses and barley free and full of herbs. I can then use a little bit of this for Willow when he needs that extra (he doesnt need a lot but he loses a fair bit of weight in the spring as he is on such grass rations. I also then have it to hand if I need it for Harry. He isnt fat, its just they ahve moved into the big field and he has started to put soem weight on when he for once was looking quite nice having lost his summer gut.

Thnaks loads for all the advice - sorry i forgot to check it before I tootled out. Its the bosses fault for being at work today!

[joandlad]

For Harry: If he's fat he doesn't need any extra calories. The fact that he is storing fat means he is already getting more than enough food. He just needs his vits and mins (plus fibre in the form of grass or hay to keep his gut working). So just a balancer and chaff is your best bet. Try to find some really big stones that you can put in the bucket with his feed. This should help to slow him down so you don't need to feed so much Hi-Fi Lite (definitely check the bag I'm sure it has sugar in it in some form or other).

For Willow: The easiest, and cheapest thing to do would be to get some oil (linseed or corn seem to be the best) and add dollops as and when required. It's a slow release energy food, high in calories and easily absorbed. If you put him on the balancer and chaff too it makes life easy and you can just addd oil when you think he needs it.

Balancers tend to have a broader spectrum of vits and mins in the right quantities. Worth a bit of a google research to check out what's in the NAF one.

Link to Bailey's Lo-Cal
www.baileyshorsefeeds.co.uk/whatproduct/general/no14.htm

Link to Top Spec Anti-lam
www.topspec.com/basket/

There lots of new research showing that fat and fibre is the best diet for horses.

[racaille]

I'm not doing hard feed at all for my boys as we have round bales of luzerne/hay which is doing the trick this cold, snowy weather. They have mineral licks too, which they don't really bother with, as they are at the bales ad lib.
This can be a tricky regime though as you do have to monitor how they are doing/how much exercise they are getting and it has to be introduced very gradually so you can be sure your horse, if greedy, doesn't overdo it, but boy, is it nice to NOT have to trail about in the frozen snow, chucking food around.

[Becca]

Ceej most nice feed merchants will order in for you, if they sell other baileys producks it should be no problem for them

[haffyfan]

Is he rugged? You could always take a layer off if so so he has to move around a bit more and use some of his fat to keep warm too.

[ceej]

makes no differnce - he burns warm ALL the time...I doubt he would get cold even if I left him unrugged. YOu woudl think with a motabolism like his - which is always in overdrive - he would be skinny!!! I know really it is excercise that will do it. Off to see a potential sharer at the w/e though so that may be the best solution!

[sarah129]

i need just the opposite.my old horse needs to put weight on!

[jane]

Hi Sarah

Baileys No 4 Top Line Conditioning cubes are great for weight gain

Another good food for an old horse is Rowan Barbury Ready Mash Extra, this is an amazing food for oldies

Just to say that Rocky my old lad had these and he was 40 when he died.

[ceej]

aww jane, have a karma.

Thanks everyone for your help...I think Harry may have started to shed ever so slightly....ill take a pic for your comments. Hes an odd one. Clearly fat (like over his bottom and crest etc) but you can see his ribs a tinsy bit...its not worms! maybe he just has a big ribcage? is that normal/common/possible?

[fleabitten]

Connie was an extremely picky eater and we found that Baileys senior mix was the best. She also liked the no1 cooked cereal meal - it went all like porridge and she slopped round in it like a pig. We also fed her sugarbeet on occasion. PM me if you need any help with your oldie. Connie was nearing 30 and we spent a lot of time nursing her and trying to pump food into her! ;D

[racaille]

Jan 19, 2009 16:49:04 GMT sarah129 said:

i need just the opposite.my old horse needs to put weight on!

We had some ancient old nags come to us for retirement and just put them on ad lib hay/luzerne. They got sleek very quickly, even with their wobbly old teeth.

[fleabitten]

Connie didnt even each much grass or hay/haylage and her teeth were all there! Not even a 0.5kg net! We tried sugarbeet and my RI made up an old pony fibre mush thing to try. We tried fibre cubes as well. We tried leaving her out at night but she didnt do very well and got tired and lost weight - and that was in the summer! We had to give her a B vit supplement in a syringe. We had to try every feed imaginable. We tried oats (not a pick of difference), molasses, Guiness, carrots, apples. I felt bad she wouldnt eat much fibre - i even tried stuffing it in her mouth out of desperation but she spat it out again. It was a struggle.